This one's going down

[SMG]

Originally Posted by Derek S

He'll spend time in prison which, for a Police officer, is an exceptionally difficult place to be. He'll lose his job, probably a big chunk of his pension and his license. He'll have to pass an extended test once his disqualification expires.

His life has been ruined for doing the job he chose to do. He wasn't some yahoo screaming around at speed in a motor for a laugh. He was a highly trained driver reacting to what he believed was an ongoing crime and because of choices he made he will have to live with the death of an innocent girl for evermore.

Derek, Personally, I feel your comments are slightly one sided. Prison is an extremely difficult place for anyone, Police officers do not have a monopoly on segregation. His life is ruined because he failed to do his job properly, & in that failing, he killed an innocent girl.

Because he was a "Highly trained driver", he is not exempt from the law.

I hold the Department of Transport warrant, to conduct driving tests. (Driving Standards Test Examiner) I have also conducted advanced driving assessments. I have held every advanced licence there is. From motor cycle to HGV 1. I have driven with Police class 1 drivers, aggressive & pursuit.

I don't consider myself to be an exceptional driver. I am more experienced than most, but still human. Many drivers like myself consider driving to be an "Art", & take pride in it. But there are so many things that can, & do go wrong, when your driving. My forward planning is very good. But at night, you can not plan, therefore you can not "predict".

For anyone with these qualifications, passing an "Extended test" would be very easy. His attitude would, however, have a bearing on the examiners decision.

I can say that after chatting with department colleagues & police, not one professional driver has defended this officers actions. He was wrong. professionally, personally, & legally.

I would hope that this sends out, a message to all drivers, not only emergency drivers. That there are consequences & repercussions, if you drive in a dangerous manner.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by SMG

Derek, Personally, I feel your comments are slightly one sided. Prison is an extremely difficult place for anyone, Police officers do not have a monopoly on segregation. His life is ruined because he failed to do his job properly, & in that failing, he killed an innocent girl.

Because he was a "Highly trained driver", he is not exempt from the law.

I hold the Department of Transport warrant, to conduct driving tests. (Driving Standards Test Examiner) I have also conducted advanced driving assessments. I have held every advanced licence there is. From motor cycle to HGV 1. I have driven with Police class 1 drivers, aggressive & pursuit.

I don't consider myself to be an exceptional driver. I am more experienced than most, but still human. Many drivers like myself consider driving to be an "Art", & take pride in it. But there are so many things that can, & do go wrong, when your driving. My forward planning is very good. But at night, you can not plan, therefore you can not "predict".

For anyone with these qualifications, passing an "Extended test" would be very easy. His attitude would, however, have a bearing on the examiners decision.

I can say that after chatting with department colleagues & police, not one professional driver has defended this officers actions. He was wrong. professionally, personally, & legally.

I would hope that this sends out, a message to all drivers, not only emergency drivers. That there are consequences & repercussions, if you drive in a dangerous manner.

Well said and quite right as well, any else that thinks any different about this should have a good hard look at themselves in the mirror and think about the comments you have made on this thread or are thinking about making.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by SMG

Derek, Personally, I feel your comments are slightly one sided. Prison is an extremely difficult place for anyone, Police officers do not have a monopoly on segregation. His life is ruined because he failed to do his job properly, & in that failing, he killed an innocent girl.

Because he was a "Highly trained driver", he is not exempt from the law.

I hold the Department of Transport warrant, to conduct driving tests. (Driving Standards Test Examiner) I have also conducted advanced driving assessments. I have held every advanced licence there is. From motor cycle to HGV 1. I have driven with Police class 1 drivers, aggressive & pursuit.

I don't consider myself to be an exceptional driver. I am more experienced than most, but still human. Many drivers like myself consider driving to be an "Art", & take pride in it. But there are so many things that can, & do go wrong, when your driving. My forward planning is very good. But at night, you can not plan, therefore you can not "predict".

For anyone with these qualifications, passing an "Extended test" would be very easy. His attitude would, however, have a bearing on the examiners decision.

I can say that after chatting with department colleagues & police, not one professional driver has defended this officers actions. He was wrong. professionally, personally, & legally.

I would hope that this sends out, a message to all drivers, not only emergency drivers. That there are consequences & repercussions, if you drive in a dangerous manner.

a bit harsh there i think i cant remember him saying that the officer was not guilty or that he shouldnt be punished what both he and i have done though is post answers to those who seem to think there is never any justification for driving at high speed or with out lights

i too have passed neary every advanced driving test there is and taught people to pass advanced driving tests including some police and army drivers

and although i always told all that they have to drive with in not only the limits of the car but thier limits too, but that wont help pedestrians who step out in front of high speed cars the only thing that will save them is themselves checking the road carefully before crossing

as i posted before and i bet you have said similar to those you taught "yes you have the right of way at that roundabout over the 32 tonner coming from the left BUT if he cant stop its your family who will be suing him not you"

i was not going to prejudge a case that i didnt have the full facts on or just the prosecution case ( never one-sided are they ) on what some one did in the course of thier job

i just hope that no one has to wait to long in future for a officer to turn up as two i spoke to today were already saying that in future they would not be doing over stated limit if they are told silent approach or if they are going to follow any triggered cars ( anpr )

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

i just hope that no one has to wait to long in future for a officer to turn up as two i spoke to today were already saying that in future they would not be doing over stated limit if they are told silent approach or if they are going to follow any triggered cars ( anpr )

Oh please stop trying to make people feel guilty that a police man is going to prison for not protecting the public by driving at 94mph without his lights or siren on in the dark to warn them.

What else did they have to say about what happened. I doubt if they blamed the dead girl for crossing the road, did they?

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

and although i always told all that they have to drive with in not only the limits of the car but thier limits too, but that wont help pedestrians who step out in front of high speed cars the only thing that will save them is themselves checking the road carefully before crossing

So Hayley ( by the way that was her name his innocent victim ) was walking down the road on a normal housing estate on a road with normal speed limits at night when she attempted to cross the road expecting any vehicle approaching to be driven normally within the speed limit.

But this police driver decided to drive on this normal housing estate and on a normal road at the abnormal and dangerous speed of 94mph without any blues and twos on to warn of his approach, you cannot judge speeds from approaching headlights as the is nothing to measure the headlight beams against so removing any perspective used to measure speed.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Oh please stop trying to make people feel guilty that a police man is going to prison for not protecting the public by driving at 94mph without his lights or siren on in the dark to warn them.

What else did they have to say about what happened. I doubt if they blamed the dead girl for crossing the road, did they?

actually the one did go on about bringing in rules on where to cross roads as they have in Germany

and i am not trying to make any of you feel guilty ( should have made it clearer ) they were saying what they did based on the press coverage and the lack of support they get in general from the force when anything goes wrong

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

actually the one did go on about bringing in rules on where to cross roads as they have in Germany

we don't need them kind of rules. we already have rules that are good enough for everyones safety. it was his colleague that broke one of them safety rules.

and i am not trying to make any of you feel guilty ( should have made it clearer ) they were saying what they did based on the press coverage and the lack of support they get in general from the force when anything goes wrong

The force will support you when you're in the right. you can't expect to be supported if you break the rules.

[SMG]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

a bit harsh there i think i cant remember him saying that the officer was not guilty or that he shouldnt be punished what both he and i have done though is post answers to those who seem to think there is never any justification for driving at high speed or with out lights

i too have passed neary every advanced driving test there is and taught people to pass advanced driving tests including some police and army drivers

and although i always told all that they have to drive with in not only the limits of the car but thier limits too, but that wont help pedestrians who step out in front of high speed cars the only thing that will save them is themselves checking the road carefully before crossing

as i posted before and i bet you have said similar to those you taught "yes you have the right of way at that roundabout over the 32 tonner coming from the left BUT if he cant stop its your family who will be suing him not you"

i was not going to prejudge a case that i didnt have the full facts on or just the prosecution case ( never one-sided are they ) on what some one did in the course of thier job

i just hope that no one has to wait to long in future for a officer to turn up as two i spoke to today were already saying that in future they would not be doing over stated limit if they are told silent approach or if they are going to follow any triggered cars ( anpr )

Roger, Harsh measures perhaps, but the outcome of this incident was a dead girl. Of course people will still still step out in front of vehicles, education will help, but nothing is better than a good pair of eyes. I think the point most are making, is that no matter who`s eyes they were, yours or mine, a vehicle traveling at 94 mph is going to bear down on you faster than you could reasonably expect. Unlike you roger, I did make my point, right from the start, I do consider that I had enough evidence, to state that the officer was driving dangerously.

Whilst I agree that in an emergency, the services should progress as quickly as possible, Im certain you will agree that no driver, advanced or otherwise, could possibly be in full control of a vehicle, whilst traveling 90 odd mph, in a 30 zone, at night. You know, that to be in full control of a vehicle, you need to match the speed of the vehicle, to the road, weather & traffic conditions.

Emergency drivers are educated & trained to drive to the above conditions, safely. This officer was complacent, & failed just about every rule.

[rogerdraig]

if you had the evidence fair enough i didn't ( with the best will in the world i wouldnt trust the evidence presented as fact on tv or in the papers i have seen first hand how far they will twist anything to thier agenda )

as to his speed i wont say that that speed would always be not in control but in this situation it does seem he did go to fast for the conditions and how far he could see a oint i made earlier that i tried to teach them that the limits were theirs not just the cars wich may be capable of more than they were !

neither i nor dereck from what i have read ever said he was justified just that there can be reasons for not using lights and for exceeding the stated limits ( i stand to be corrected if there is such a post )

and i stand by my point that pedestrians best chance of survival is to treat all roads as extremely dangerous

[frogstamper]

I reserved judgement on this case initially and wanted to hear both sides of the argument, in the past, and probably in the future also I'll generally air on the side of the officer because as far as I see it their job is a thankless task.
But in this case the officer in question was clearly in the wrong, for that he will pay a heavy price loss of job, standing in the community, a prison sentence and worst of all living the rest of his life with the knowledge his taken the life of a young girl.
Of course as harsh as the above is it palls into insignificance when you consider the price the girls family will pay till the end of their days.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

and i stand by my point that pedestrians best chance of survival is to treat all roads as extremely dangerous

Especially when there's a chance that there might be a police car doing excessive dangerous speeds without using any means at their disposal of warning you.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Especially when there's a chance that there might be a police car doing excessive dangerous speeds without using any means at their disposal of warning you.

my point exactly as it happens no law will stop it ever happening and even this conviction wont bring the girl back

if you want your kids to stand a better chance teaching them that its always dangerous will benefit them far more than prosecuting the offender after the fact

but some seem fine with them being knocked over as long as there is some one to put away

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

Originally Posted by frogstamper

I reserved judgement on this case initially and wanted to hear both sides of the argument, in the past, and probably in the future also I'll generally air on the side of the officer because as far as I see it their job is a thankless task.
But in this case the officer in question was clearly in the wrong, for that he will pay a heavy price loss of job, standing in the community, a prison sentence and worst of all living the rest of his life with the knowledge his taken the life of a young girl.
Of course as harsh as the above is it palls into insignificance when you consider the price the girls family will pay till the end of their days.

exactly

[moaningmags]

My husband thought I was mad when I taught all of our kids to cross between parked cars, but there's no guarantee kids will find an empty of stretch of road to cross at.

I also taught them not to assume they could cross the road when the green man came on, they were to wait and make sure the cars had stopped and if they heard sirens they were not to cross the road but to wait.
Every child should be taught this, sadly many aren't.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

if you want your kids to stand a better chance teaching them that its always dangerous will benefit them far more than prosecuting the offender after the fact

I don't know how were just focusing on kids. it's a danger to all ages.

but some seem fine with them being knocked over as long as there is some one to put away

I don't know if you do it intentionally, but your last words always seem to be a guilt trip for the officer who broke the law.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by moaningmags

My husband thought I was mad when I taught all of our kids to cross between parked cars, but there's no guarantee kids will find an empty of stretch of road to cross at.

I also taught them not to assume they could cross the road when the green man came on, they were to wait and make sure the cars had stopped and if they heard sirens they were not to cross the road but to wait.
Every child should be taught this, sadly many aren't.

maybe better put than i have been

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

I don't know how were just focusing on kids. it's a danger to all ages.



I don't know if you do it intentionally, but your last words always seem to be a guilt trip for the officer who broke the law.

first bit my brain just mostly associates teaching with kids and any way every ones somes ones kid

second not meant that way he was guilty ( any thing about how police were taking it was not aimed at comments here but at the way some of the press have been having a go at them )