Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Nothing wrong with that. The Arabs in 1956, 1967, 1972 etc should not have attacked Israel. That's what Israel's up against in this missile age.

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------





That's a disgraceful thing to say. Remember October 7th - the trigger for what's happening now.



Agreed on Netanyahu focusing on self-survival. But how the hell could he have prevented 7/10? The shooting/evictions you mentioned are indeed a stain on Netanyahu's government but it doesn't brand Israel as a terrorist state; that's going too far.

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/05/nx-s1...tober-7-attack

Hamas code-named it The Promise of Judgement Day. As early as 2018, Israel caught wind of Hamas' battle plan to invade Israel from neighboring Gaza. But Israel's domestic intelligence agency did not consider it a realistic threat.


That is the main conclusion of an investigation by Israel's Shin Bet agency into the colossal security failure of the Hamas-led attack on Oct. 7, 2023. It was the single deadliest day in Israeli history, when thousands of Palestinian attackers killed nearly 1,200 people and took 251 people hostage.
This is the first inquiry by Israel's main agency tasked with spying on Hamas into why Israel failed to detect and prevent the attack, following another inquiry by Israel's military. The Shin Bet hinted at failures by Israel's political leadership to carry out the agency's desire to assassinate senior Hamas leaders, and blamed Israeli policies of propping up Hamas rule in Gaza to buy calm on its border.

[Sephiroth]

@Hugh

I suppose better intelligence could have avoided 7/10 - as you say. But it didn't and that doesn't make Israel a terrorist state, which is what Andrew has alleged.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/05/nx-s1...tober-7-attack

Top level victim blaming.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Top level victim blaming.

What, blaming themselves?

From the link in the quoted article

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/28/nx-s1-5312841/israel-military-oct-7-investigation-hamas-gaza

Israeli military cites 'fundamental misunderstanding' of Hamas ahead of Oct. 7 attack

Israel's military said "glaring" intelligence failures left it unable to protect Israeli citizens on Oct. 7, 2023, when Hamas-led militants attacked the country, killing nearly 1,200 people and taking 251 hostage, according to an official report on Israel's response to the attack.

The investigation — which has not fully been made public — details a decades-long "fundamental misunderstanding" of Hamas, according to an English summary of the findings provided to NPR by the military. It said that this allowed senior Israeli officers to underestimate the militant group's capabilities and intentions leading up to the attack.

The military operated on an approach "based on the (incorrect) assumption that Hamas was neither interested nor preparing for a large-scale war," according to the summary. It stated that Israeli intelligence officials thought the group was more interested in governing Gaza, which it seized control of from the Palestinian Authority in 2007, than fighting Israel.

"In hindsight, Hamas systematically employed deception tactics that reinforced this perception. In retrospect, this was a grave mistake," it said...

...The army's chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Herzi Halevi, said he took responsibility for the army's failures.

"I was the commander of the military on October 7th, and I have my own responsibility. I also carry the weight of all your responsibility — that, too, I see as mine," he said. Halevi is set to step down next week, after announcing his resignation in January.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

@Hugh

I suppose better intelligence could have avoided 7/10 - as you say. But it didn't and that doesn't make Israel a terrorist state, which is what Andrew has alleged.

I've not alleged that poor intelligence has made Israel a terrorist state. Its actions in Gaza and bombing in Qatar make it a terrorist state and one which is increasingly at odds with the rest of the World due to this. It's sad because the country has developed so well for a long time.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've not alleged that poor intelligence has made Israel a terrorist state. Its actions in Gaza and bombing in Qatar make it a terrorist state and one which is increasingly at odds with the rest of the World due to this. It's sad because the country has developed so well for a long time.

I disagree. You've made an extension too far. Yemen is a terrorist state; Iran is a terrorist state. Israel is being too brutal in Gaza and, being a democracy, is not a terrorist state.

Btw, is Russia a terrorist state?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I disagree. You've made an extension too far. Yemen is a terrorist state; Iran is a terrorist state. Israel is being too brutal in Gaza and, being a democracy, is not a terrorist state.

Your threshold for being a terrorist state also seems to require the country to be majority Muslim. Mine is based on the country's actions.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Btw, is Russia a terrorist state?

You only have to look at the Salisbury poisonings to know that's a big yes from me.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

[/COLOR]
Your threshold for being a terrorist state also seems to require the country to be majority Muslim. Mine is based on the country's actions.

You only have to look at the Salisbury poisonings to know that's a big yes from me.

That's also a supposition too far on your part. My basis of assessment is pure fact - actions by those actors that everybody knows about.

Israel is not a terrorist state. It's government is behaving badly on Gaza with respect to the civilian population. The terrorists are the 7/10 invaders and the missile launchers in Gaza, Yemen, Lebanon - all supplied and funded by Iran.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've not alleged that poor intelligence has made Israel a terrorist state. Its actions in Gaza and bombing in Qatar make it a terrorist state and one which is increasingly at odds with the rest of the World due to this. It's sad because the country has developed so well for a long time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3yz939qnpo.amp

I’d wager this has Israel’s sticky fingers all over it

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3yz939qnpo.amp

I’d wager this has Israel’s sticky fingers all over it

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said (in above link):

If the flotilla participants' genuine wish is to deliver humanitarian aid rather than serve Hamas, Israel calls on the vessels to dock at the Ashkelon Marina and unload the aid there, from where it will be transferred promptly in a co-ordinated manner to the Gaza Strip

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said (in above link):

Indeed as they’ve done such a sterling job so far of ensuring aid gets in and ensures there is no famine….

From the above link also

On Monday, the Israeli foreign ministry alleged that the flotilla was "organised by Hamas"

Yep, Hamas have recruited Greta to lead an undercover infiltration

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Indeed as they’ve done such a sterling job so far of ensuring aid gets in and ensures there is no famine….

From the above link also

On Monday, the Israeli foreign ministry alleged that the flotilla was "organised by Hamas"

Yep, Hamas have recruited Greta to lead an undercover infiltration

Greta is Hamas' useful idiot.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That's also a supposition too far on your part. My basis of assessment is pure fact - actions by those actors that everybody knows about.

Israel is not a terrorist state. It's government is behaving badly on Gaza with respect to the civilian population. The terrorists are the 7/10 invaders and the missile launchers in Gaza, Yemen, Lebanon - all supplied and funded by Iran.

I'm afraid your fear of Islam taking over the UK subconsciously seems to dullen the evident sad logic that repeatedly demonstrates that Israel under Netanyahu is a terrorist state.

mrmistoffelees has posted something that looks like yet more Israel state-sponsored terrorism. If Israel was behind it, could you now adopt an evidence-based approach and acknowledge that Israel is a terrorist state?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm afraid your fear of Islam taking over the UK subconsciously seems to dullen the evident sad logic that repeatedly demonstrates that Israel under Netanyahu is a terrorist state.

mrmistoffelees has posted something that looks like yet more Israel state-sponsored terrorism. If Israel was behind it, could you now adopt an evidence-based approach and acknowledge that Israel is a terrorist state?

Oh and we can add Tunisia into the mix as well

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...d-port-tunisia

The problem with pitching this arguement to Sephi is that in his belief that Muslims are trying to take over the world he sees the Israeli military as the perfect proxy for western nations. Somewhere in this thread iirc it’s stated about ‘looking east’ (or somilar)

[Carth]

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled"

From a brilliant movie too, although hard to watch it twice once you know the ending.