U.S Election 2016

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Times columnist and author India Knight has called for the assassination of U.S. President, Donald J. Trump Whilst I think "called for" is stretching it a bit, as someone in the comments said "Imagine what would happen to Tommy Robinson for inciting murder like this"

Sounds like another one of those hypocrites who decry those who advocate violence, intimidation, abuse, hate crime etc. but don't seem to mind indulging in some of it when it suits. It's pathetic and it's about time the police started cracking down on it. I look forward to seeing what happens in this case.

Originally Posted by Damien

Which is understandable if it wasn't for the fact that we have our own MPs banned and citizens if they're born in one of those places. That has to stop. We have a duty to our citizens first.

It was in the news yesterday that cases are being dealt with, on a case by case basis. I am sure if Mo Farah or the Tory MP that is said to run in to problems, or whoever else has a residence in the US will be admitted as the exception, it does say that if people have bothered to read the Executive Order.

I've seen a lot of hypocrisy this weekend and I cannot be bothered to explain it, so I'll just leave these here:-

There has been hysterical media condemnation of Donald Trump's decision to refuse visas to travellers from seven mainly Muslim countries, including Iraq, for the next 90 days.

But why was the Left silent when the Obama administration refused to issue visas to Iraqis for six months?

The discovery in 2009 of two al Qaeda-Iraq terrorists living as refugees in Bowling Green, Kentucky -- who later admitted in court that they'd attacked U.S. soldiers in Iraq -- prompted the bureau to assign hundreds of specialists to an around-the-clock effort aimed at checking its archive of 100,000 improvised explosive devices collected in the war zones, known as IEDs, for other suspected terrorists' fingerprints...

As a result of the Kentucky case, the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News – even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets.

Journalists are also questioning Trump's choice of seven countries from which immigration and visits will be suspended for 90 days, while vetting procedures are checked. Some journalists suggest Trump is corrupt - being driven by vested interests:

Meanwhile, no visas will be issued for 90 days to migrants or visitors from seven mainly Muslim countries: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen...

Still, some Muslim countries were spared from Mr Trump’s blacklist, even though they have clear ties to terrorism.

According to the New York Daily News, Mr Trump doesn’t hold any business interests in any of the countries on the list, but holds major stakes in several of those excluded from it, records show.

But, once again, the same seven countries were singled out by President Barack Obama's administration for special security precautions. The choice was his, not Trump's, and no one in the media complained:

The President Obama Department of Homeland Security already targeted those seven listed countries for the past several years as nations of concern.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/an...e3a4d1e5ded377

AND:-

In February 2016 “The Department of Homeland Security today announced that it is continuing its implementation of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 with the addition of Libya, Somalia, and Yemen as three countries of concern, limiting Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals who have traveled to these countries.” It noted “the three additional countries designated today join Iran, Iraq, Sudan and Syria as countries subject to restrictions for Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals.” It was the US policy under Obama to restrict and target people “who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).”

And the media knew this back in May 2016 when some civil rights groups complained about it. “These restrictions have provoked an outcry from the Iranian-American community, as well as Arab-American and civil-liberties groups, who say the restrictions on dual nationals and certain travelers are discriminatory and could be imposed against American dual nationals.”

It was signed into law on December 18, 2015, as part of the Omnibus Appropriations Act of FY2016.



So there was a Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 two years before Trump? There was a kind of “Muslim ban” before the Muslim ban? But almost no one critiqued it in 2015 because it was Obama’s administration overseeing it.

https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28...wont-tell-you/

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yes. We have to be pragmatic and realistic. I don't think we can place absolute morality above all else which is why I am not suggesting we can ban him outright. But here our own citizens are banned from visiting, some even from returning home because they were born in the wrong place. Mo Farah, a man we made a a British knight, is banned because he was born in Somila. A Tory MP, whose name I cannot spell and I'm on my phone, is banned.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. This isn't normal. We're not talking about immigration controls here. We're talking about pure racism and discrimination.

So he can come because he is President of the United States and that's how it goes. But he doesn't get the honour, the pomp and circumstance, of a state visit. He is not a friend of who we are.

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------



Quite.

Advocating the murder of others, however bad they are, is both sick and incompatible with liberal democracy. Even if you take out the immorality of it it achieves nothing.

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Come to think of it it's also borderline illegal. I don't know what she actually said and am on my phone but is braitbart isn't lying (quite possible) than it's illegal to call for the assassination of people.

In the real world we have to do business with people we don't like. The Chinese would be a good example - our homes are full of their gadgets in spite of the inconvenient facts. Is anyone seriously claiming their human rights and other abuses are less serious than Trump's?

Originally Posted by Osem

In the real world we have to do business with people we don't like. The Chinese would be a good example - our homes are full of their gadgets. Is anyone seriously claiming their human rights abuses etc. are less serious than Trump's?

TBH I expect more of America. China's state visit wasn't without complaint though.

Also I agree we have to deal with him. I just don't think he should treat him with special privileges until, at the very least, he treats our own citizens with basic rights. I'll never like the man but at least this he should back down from.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

TBH I expect more of America. China's state visit wasn't without complaint though.

Also I agree we have to deal with him. I just don't think he should treat him with special privileges until, at the very least, he treats our own citizens with basic rights. I'll never like the man but at least this he should back down from.

But they DON'T have a right to enter the US.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Damien

Come to think of it it's also borderline illegal. I don't know what she actually said and am on my phone but is braitbart isn't lying (quite possible) than it's illegal to call for the assassination of people.

imo, she didn't call for his assassination but did as when it was going to happen.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

the way i heard it the bush administration destroyed the twin towers and blamed muslims - what was that operation southwoods

Difference being - my example was fact, yours was fiction...

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Difference being - my example was fact, yours was fiction...

as yet a unproven allegation i think you mean

Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various U.S. military and civilian targets

sound familiar ?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

imo, she didn't call for his assassination but did as when it was going to happen.

You have highlighted a classic Breibart fake-news story: the headline being absolutely untrue but lapped up by the faithful.

Don't forget Mr Breibart is now in a position of power and influence at the highest level of US Government .. fun times ahead indeed.

Originally Posted by Osem

Sounds like another one of those hypocrites who decry those who advocate violence, intimidation, abuse, hate crime etc. but don't seem to mind indulging in some of it when it suits. It's pathetic and it's about time the police started cracking down on it. I look forward to seeing what happens in this case.

Lock her up along with Madonna.

Remember, "Love Trumps Hate", but only when it suits.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

It was in the news yesterday that cases are being dealt with, on a case by case basis. I am sure if Mo Farah or the Tory MP that is said to run in to problems, or whoever else has a residence in the US will be admitted as the exception, it does say that if people have bothered to read the Executive Order.

I've seen a lot of hypocrisy this weekend and I cannot be bothered to explain it, so I'll just leave these here:-



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/an...e3a4d1e5ded377

AND:-



https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28...wont-tell-you/

A pretty weak attempt to defend the Orange One.

If you read the Seth Frantzman blog post, someone notes that:

No. The code you cite simply says that nationals from those countries are not covered under the Visa Waiver Program which allows many people to travel to the US without a visa. It just means that these nationals must get a visa. They were not banned. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.62332494aa0a

Seth then replies:

I did not say Obama “banned” travelers from these countries. Please show me where I said that.

The washingtonpost.com link confirms:

The Obama administration announced on Thursday that it has begun to implement restrictions to the visa waiver program Congress passed as part of the budget deal last month.

The restrictions prevent nationals of 38 countries who have either traveled to Iraq, Syria, Iran or Sudan since March 1, 2011, or those who hold citizenship from those countries, from coming to the United States under the program. The visa waiver program offers expedited electronic processing and short-term visa-free travel to tourists and business travelers.

Instead, dual nationals and travelers who have spent time in the listed countries will be required to go through the full vetting of the regular visa process, which includes an in-person interview at a U.S. embassy or consulate.

Originally Posted by ianch99

A pretty weak attempt to defend the Orange One.

Wrong, as always.

Just like you were wrong when you said this:-

Originally Posted by ianch99

You have highlighted a classic Breibart fake-news story: the headline being absolutely untrue but lapped up by the faithful.

As the following looks like a real tweet by her, waiting on an assassination, is essentially asking for one by tweeting it:-

https://twitter.com/indiaknight/stat...37748013092864

Well this is interesting, have just applied for a group Esta (me and my family). On the 2 previous occasions I have done this we were accepted immediately. This time I have received the following message?

Your travel authorization is under review because an immediate determination could not be made.

Originally Posted by Mick

It was in the news yesterday that cases are being dealt with, on a case by case basis. I am sure if Mo Farah or the Tory MP that is said to run in to problems, or whoever else has a residence in the US will be admitted as the exception, it does say that if people have bothered to read the Executive Order.

I've seen a lot of hypocrisy this weekend and I cannot be bothered to explain it, so I'll just leave these here:-



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/an...e3a4d1e5ded377

AND:-



https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28...wont-tell-you/

But this isn't 'just' stopping issuing visas. It's also turning away anyone who is just visiting, people who already have Visas, and people who have green cards.

[Gavin78]

Let him run his country how he wants...the reason we were leaving the EU is because we were being told what to do by someone else. who are we as other countries to decide what he should and shouldn't do...you all wonder why he might push that button because there are some out there that don't agree with him like a lot of things and will carry on till they get there own way.