Brexit (Old)

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

Nope, just injecting a bit of reality into the simplistic assumptions of those who still support hard Brexit. We are still connected by a tunnel regardless, or should this be blown up?

I voted leave, I did not vote for complete separation between us and the EU.

With all the problems Brexit has thrown up I wish I and others who have since changed their minds had voted to stay.

Then why did you vote leave? The mind boggles!

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Then why did you vote leave? The mind boggles!

I know, it's like saying I asked for a divorce but I want to be able to come around and use Her nectar card when I'm shopping, and she can tell me what I can buy and what I can't. And who I can talk to and who I can't.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

What clear and utter gibberish as its a tiny minority who asked for a U turn so don't keep bloody insulting and patronising those who did vote remain.

Actually, my apologies. I didn't mean to say all remainers. I meant those remainers who were pushing for another roll of the dice. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

I know, it's like saying I asked for a divorce but I want to be able to come around and use Her nectar card when I'm shopping, and she can tell me what I can buy and what I can't. And who I can talk to and who I can't.

That's right, and when's dinner ready?

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Mick

I hope it pisses down on that day.

If I could give rep, I would.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I know, it's like saying I asked for a divorce but I want to be able to come around and use Her nectar card when I'm shopping, and she can tell me what I can buy and what I can't. And who I can talk to and who I can't.

As the divorce settlement has yet to be agreed, who knows what we will end up with?

There are no absolutes, this is not like cutting a single thread of a jumper to unravel everything, but more like an embroidery of many colours, which when some threads are cut, you can still see the connections.

I admit to being foolish with my vote, but then I am totally fed up with politicians that do not bother to listen to the electorate and just treat them as sheep to keep their noses in the Westminster trough.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

As the divorce settlement has yet to be agreed, who knows what we will end up with?

There are no absolutes, this is not like cutting a single thread of a jumper to unravel everything, but more like an embroidery of many colours, which when some threads are cut, you can still see the connections.

I admit to being foolish with my vote, but then I am totally fed up with politicians that do not bother to listen to the electorate and just treat them as sheep to keep their noses in the Westminster trough.

In which case, I am rather surprised that you disapprove of the government's attempts to honour the wishes of that electorate.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

In which case, I am rather surprised that you disapprove of the government's attempts to honour the wishes of that electorate.

Less than half of the electorate positively voted leave or remain. A large number did not vote at all. So, who is this majority you speak of?

Of those who supported leave even arch Brexiteer Daniel Hannan said he wants to see a Brexit that recognises the narrow win of the leave campaign. And “leaves intact a number of existing arrangements”, suggesting a hard Brexit has started to look unappealing.

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brex...te-withdrawal/

[Dave42]

Tamara Cohen

@tamcohen
·
28m


BREAKING The DUP is planning to vote down this month’s Budget if Theresa May breaches the party’s red lines on Brexit, Sky News understands

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

Less than half of the electorate positively voted leave or remain. A large number did not vote at all. So, who is this majority you speak of?

Of those who supported leave even arch Brexiteer Daniel Hannan said he wants to see a Brexit that recognises the narrow win of the leave campaign. And “leaves intact a number of existing arrangements”, suggesting a hard Brexit has started to look unappealing.

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brex...te-withdrawal/

Don't be silly. You can't account for people who choose not to vote, and anyway, are you seriously suggesting they'd all vote 'remain'? The fact is, they couldn't be arsed to vote, so they didn't care one way or the other. If they did vote, there is no reason to suspect that the proportion of leavers to remainers would be any different.

As for Danniel Hannan, if that is his view, he's entitled to it. The fact remains that if we end up with a half-baked Brexit, the majority of those who voted will feel betrayed and will lose all faith in the government.

I believe that TM knows this, and therefore will not go there.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Originally Posted by Dave42

Tamara Cohen

@tamcohen
·
28m


BREAKING The DUP is planning to vote down this month’s Budget if Theresa May breaches the party’s red lines on Brexit, Sky News understands

Good for them! However, there is no danger of TM breaching those red lines, because she will never get that through her own party, let alone Parliament.

Maybe it's a message to warn off Hammond!

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Don't be silly. You can't account for people who choose not to vote, and anyway, are you seriously suggesting they'd all vote 'remain'? The fact is, they couldn't be arsed to vote, so they didn't care one way or the other. If they did vote, there is no reason to suspect that the proportion of leavers to remainers would be any different.

As for Danniel Hannan, if that is his view, he's entitled to it. The fact remains that if we end up with a half-baked Brexit, the majority of those who voted will feel betrayed and will lose all faith in the government.

I believe that TM knows this, and therefore will not go there.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------



Good for them! However, there is no danger of TM breaching those red lines, because she will never get that through her own party, let alone Parliament.

Maybe it's a message to warn off Hammond!

or to the likes of JRM and Johnson ect who think Ireland border don't matter when it does

[Angua]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Don't be silly. You can't account for people who choose not to vote, and anyway, are you seriously suggesting they'd all vote 'remain'? The fact is, they couldn't be arsed to vote, so they didn't care one way or the other. If they did vote, there is no reason to suspect that the proportion of leavers to remainers would be any different.

As for Danniel Hannan, if that is his view, he's entitled to it. The fact remains that if we end up with a half-baked Brexit, the majority of those who voted will feel betrayed and will lose all faith in the government.

I believe that TM knows this, and therefore will not go there.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------



Good for them! However, there is no danger of TM breaching those red lines, because she will never get that through her own party, let alone Parliament.

Maybe it's a message to warn off Hammond!

You cannot say that the majority of the electorate supported either side.

Whatever happens we ALL have to live with whatever gets decided whether voted for or not and as far as I am aware, we still live in a democracy not a dictatorship.

[Gavin78]

The Dictatorship comes from those that want to Remain inside the EU. I agree with others the vote was to stay in the EU or Leave I mean it was pretty clear.

If people were too stupid to understand what they were voting for then they should never have put pen to paper and left it to the ones that new what they wanted.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

The Dictatorship comes from those that want to Remain inside the EU. I agree with others the vote was to stay in the EU or Leave I mean it was pretty clear.

If people were too stupid to understand what they were voting for then they should never have put pen to paper and left it to the ones that new what they wanted.

Oddly, I am not saying we should not leave. My argument has always been about expectations. With the reality of leaving being a whole load more complicated than the simplistic referendum vote options given. Added to the narrow majority voting to leave, a significant percentage of the population need to be heard, not just ridden rough shod over.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I am sure that all those who voted to leave just wanted to leave. They were not concerned with the detail.[COLOR="Silver"]

Oh I agree absolutely, very little was given before the referendum about what the future state might be, especially with our future relationship with the EU. Unfortunately, we now have to look at all these little things to see if we want to pull in devolved responsibilities or not and how should this be done.

This is why I had my question - how separate from the EU is separate enough? Can and we should we ask for access and be a member of EU organisations for aviation and medicines safety for example? Will this deliver Brexit as the 52% wanted or would it be regarded as 'half in, half out'. How far in is 'in'?

For example, the European Medicines Agency - should we join it? From a purely pragmatic point of view, I would say yes but there are some who might not like this as it's an EU body.

It's a tough one and I don't think even all leavers will be happy with decisions and deals made down the line.

Note - I am not trying to thwart Brexit with these questions! The governments job is to end with some kind of deal but I am interested in leavers opinions on what is leaving?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Kursk

If I could give rep, I would.

You can. Just enable reps What are you scared of ?

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

Sorry, (well actually I'm not sorry) I don't believe that rubbish - especially when the data set I use, goes on the actual result taken in 2016, the one that counts and is the one that is being enacted on.

Hate to disappoint but these figures are based on the actual result taken in 2016 ...

---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:16 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The majority voted to leave, plain and simple. Do you actually know a single leaver who wants to remain in the Customs Union?

Here's one

Revealed: Davis wanted UK to stay in the Customs Union after Brexit

David Davis believed the UK ought to stay in the Customs Union after leaving the EU, and called the Single Market a success – despite now leading the Government’s effort to leave both the Customs Union and the Single Market, it has been revealed