Unstoppable migration?

Originally Posted by techguyone

Don't tell us, maybe tell those people who work in supermarkets and refuse to handle those kind of items in the course of their jobs as checkout clerks, despite the fact the said items are wrapped said clerk isn't consuming said item.
Don't pee on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

And for God's sake stop being such an apologist.

Pointing out a truth is not being an apologist.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

...if people are this ignorant of the Islamic faith and especially if they got this easy part wrong, well, you know, maybe, just maybe, they're wrong about other parts of it too...

True, but I don't see why people should be expected to learn about an alien faith to this country or about other cultures if they don't want to.

It's up to the immigrants to fit in.

As for the practice of advertising jobs where they are required to speak Urdu, Hindi,
Gujarati etc

Must admit I've not seen any jobs with a requirement to speak Polish.

When I worked for a Local Authority, they spent money on replacing every single reception sign with "welcome" in every conceivable language.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

A thought - if people are this ignorant of the Islamic faith and especially if they got this easy part wrong, well, you know, maybe, just maybe, they're wrong about other parts of it too...

Seeing as Islamic terrorist groups, of which there are many, are routinely dismissed as misinterpreting the Koran and they are Muslims, how can, and why should, non-Muslims be expected to get it right? If the Imams are accused of getting wrong, again how can, and why should, non-Muslims be expected to get it right.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Seeing as Islamic terrorist groups, of which there are many, are routinely dismissed as misinterpreting the Koran and they are Muslims, how can, and why should, non-Muslims be expected to get it right? If the Imams are accused of getting wrong, again how can, and why should, non-Muslims be expected to get it right.

Indeed.

But because the majority don't blow themselves up and burn flags and the like we're meant to take their sensitivities into account, learn about their faith and culture so we better understand the majority and not judge them on the basis of the minority. Meanwhile we have to accept that our country is racist because we're told so often by so many that it is and feel bad about the past and bend over backwards to accomadate anyone or any religion that comes here. In fairness we have only been doing it for thirty odd years rome wasn't built in a day maybe we should revisit the subject in another twenty years as I'm sure by then meaningful integration will have started and they will see themselves as british citizens rather then muslim tolerating a society many of the majority look down their nose at.

[Anypermitedroute]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

This is it Taf. It isn't just the immigrants that come here, they have children that attract benefits, that need educating, that need health and maternity care etc etc.

I'm sure they know exactly what they are doing.

Also, how is it that when people in the UK get a foreign partner, that they usually come to live here?

Even if we discount the sham marriages, mail order Thai brides etc and accept that some relationships are genuinely based on love- why can't the UK partner move to their country if they love them so much?

I'm so pleased that it's become socially acceptable to be able to talk about the problems of immigration without the PC brigade being able to silence people by the inappropriate use of the R word.

You will be surprised how many DO move abroad, 1.8 million emigrated last year, you don't see it because obviously you are here so you only see what you read and live around. Its easier to base here because a) foreign people tend to learn English as a second language as standard b) English people tend not to bother to learn another language or struggle (me included first part early in my life and now live to regret it later). Believe me I would jump (and still plan to) move to Austria because that's where I see my future (although no idea how that will happen because of you know what but we shall see) As for integration believe or not the vast majority do try and integrate, try and become British culture, eat fish and chips on Friday, get a cricket annual season membership, drink real ale, get plastered on a Friday, pee down an alleyway, try not to blow themselves up etc

Funny enough when I go abroad, you will always spot a brit, a majority of them don't integrate either, speak English everywhere, open up ex pat shops selling marmite, Tetley tea, walkers crisp etc, and yet we have an issue with a Polish delicatessen, go figure

Originally Posted by Taf

My ex-neighbour, a Czech Roma, has now added yet another child to his brood, and came to see me as he was having problems getting various forms (mostly benefit claim forms) completed for a yet another large group of Czech/Slovakian/Hungarian Roma that appeared on his doorstep demanding help.

I told him to sort it himself as he has been here long enough to have learned how to read and write English.

Well, the nice Polish family moved out opposite me (who clean outside the flat and took down the rubbish and spoke very nicely with their well-behaved children), in their place, "single mother" courtesy of DSS with live in boyfriend ("he doesn't live here all the time ya know", no job, smoking and leaving cigarette stubs in my plant pot outside). I still await the hammer I lent her last week ("it be only a minute I give it back to ya"). You'll forgive me I f I chose the former "foreign" neighbours (who now bought their own home so good luck to them) to my own indigenous "something for nothing" lot I got now. As I write this, the rubbish is pilling up outside, probably waiting for “someone else” to sort out for her

[Osem]

Maybe you only spot the Brits who haven't integrated? People have been taking their cuisine and customs with them ever since civilisation began, it's one of the reasons places like London are what they are. You'll do the same (to some extent or another) if/when you finally get to Austria - it might be HP sauce, it might be British newspapers, it might be watching your national football team and daring to wear their flag on match day. God forbid any Austrian neighbours get upset about it...

You were lucky and had nice Polish neighbours, now you have an inadequate home bred living opposite but I'm not sure what that proves because it's patently obvious the the problem isn't the proportion of lazy scroungers in any given national group, it's the fact that we have no means to control how many people choose to come here regardless of what they have to offer and why they are coming. I don't think it's wrong to want to have that control in just the same way that you'd clearly love to be able to choose your neighbours eh?

[RichardCoulter]

I agree that there's good and bad in every walk of life. I've met some obnoxious and some extremely pleasant Polish/Asian people.

I sometimes go out socialising with some Indian and Irish friends and even they say that immigration is now out of hand.

I must admit to a little wry smile to myself though when they say that these new immigrants are taking their jobs (usually driving taxis) and driving down wages

Last time I was in Prague I got talking to a local, he explained that most of the bar staff, waiters etc were actually immigrants. He said that it's because local people aren't prepared to do these low paid jobs and prefer to claim benefits.

Sounds familiar to the UK doesn't it. I really don't know the answer, it's not because benefits are too high, but that wages are too low. Also, may benefits are linked to your basic needs as a family, whereas wages don't take account of this.

However, some small businesses would not survive if they had to increase their rate of pay; on the other hand some companies who could afford to pay more do not and get the taxpayer to subsidise their wages bill.

Traditionally Governments have resolved this by topping up low wages with Family Income Supplement, Family Credit and now Tax Credits.

Ironically, it was the Tories that introduced this measure and it's the Tories that are now effectively phasing it out by cutting it, restricting it to two children and forcing employers to increase the minimum wage.

[Osem]

Oh well, the UK population only grew by another 327,000 in the year to March so I suppose we should be delighted.

Poland has now become the most common non UK country of birth for people in the UK and there's been record levels of immigration from Romania and Bulgaria. What a surprise...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37183733

More than 25% of births in England and Wales in 2015 were to women born outside the UK, the highest level on record, according to separate figures.
ONS statistician Elizabeth McLaren said: "The rising percentage of births to women born outside the UK is largely due to foreign born women making up an increasing share of the female population of childbearing age in England and Wales.
"Part of the reason for this is that migrants are more likely to be working-age adults rather than children or older people. Alongside their increasing share of the population, higher fertility among women born outside the UK has also had an impact."

But it's all OK because GDP will be higher...

[Anypermitedroute]

Originally Posted by Osem

Oh well, the UK population only grew by another 327,000 in the year to March so I suppose we should be delighted.

Poland has now become the most common non UK country of birth for people in the UK and there's been record levels of immigration from Romania and Bulgaria. What a surprise...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37183733



But it's all OK because GDP will be higher...

A little deeper diving into the stats also states that 147,000 were NON EU, so explain why the government fails to do anything regarding this near 50% which it has complete control over

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Anypermitedroute

A little deeper diving into the stats also states that 147,000 were NON EU, so explain why the government fails to do anything regarding this near 50% which it has complete control over

The GDP obsession answers that question IMHO. Successive governments seem to have little long term vision. Energy policy and transport would be other examples.

Does the NHS charge these non british citizens ? If they do then as long as all costs are covered and a small profit added then good business i suppose but if they don't and i think that's likely the case why the hell are we not charging.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Does the NHS charge these non british citizens ? If they do then as long as all costs are covered and a small profit added then good business i suppose but if they don't and i think that's likely the case why the hell are we not charging.

And what do we do if they don't/can't pay? Leave them to die on the street? Brexit is going to increase migration as people rush to Little England before the drawbridge comes up. Not that that will stop anyone that wants to come anyway.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Does the NHS charge these non british citizens ? If they do then as long as all costs are covered and a small profit added then good business i suppose but if they don't and i think that's likely the case why the hell are we not charging.

They are supposed to, but in the vast majority of cases they don't.

Pressure on time, a lack of resources and the ethos of putting people first seem to be the most common excuses given.

Cameron did mention that he was going to tackle this (one of the few measures of his that I supported), but I've not come across anything to suggest that anything was actually done about this abuse.

In some cases, it's cheaper to travel to the UK than pay the cost in their own country.

Wonder what would happen if we turned up in a foreign country expecting free treatment?

Originally Posted by Mr K

And what do we do if they don't/can't pay? Leave them to die on the street? Brexit is going to increase migration as people rush to Little England before the drawbridge comes up. Not that that will stop anyone that wants to come anyway.

Life & death emergencies and stabilisation are exempt from a requirement to pay, even if they are able to.

In Thai hospitals there are signs that say all foreigners will be charged the full cost of treatment plus a surcharge!!

[Anypermitedroute]

I think we are forgetting that the vast vast majority of these people will be coming here to work and legally working so will be paying for these facilities via NI contributions like EVERYONE ELSE. You will also find that the 99% of them will thankfully never ever need to use them either.

We will also need to move on from the motion that the NHS is the best thing in the world. It's great but it ain't the best and that includes a few countries in Europe