Updated: Boris resigns as party leader

Originally Posted by Pierre

Ah, the old “moral compass”, As the saying goes - if the government told you it was morally correct to put your hand in the fire, would you?

Because that’s what happened, and lots of people felt so morally superior imprisoning themselves and wearing useless face coverings ( some still do) …good for them.

I guess that you have nobody in your life who is likely to suffer from contracting Covid.However some of us do and that's why we stuck to the rules so as to protect them and I don't think it was too much to ask the same of you.

Was I expecting too much of your character?

Originally Posted by Pierre

Ah, the old “moral compass”, As the saying goes - if the government told you it was morally correct to put your hand in the fire, would you?

Because that’s what happened, and lots of people felt so morally superior imprisoning themselves and wearing useless face coverings ( some still do) …good for them.

No, it’s nothing like that, because in one case, you would be physically harming yourself, and in the other, you would be helping preventing the spread of a novel virus which made people very ill/die.

I don’t know anyone who felt "morally superior" for helping prevent spreading COVID - being socially responsible, probably, and thinking of others.

[tweetiepooh]

"I don't think I did anything wrong" is something not unique to Boris. He could still argue that he was advised it was all above board but the investigation has found that he did breach the law and has been fined. Let's not lose sight of what "crime" was committed. It not quite Watergate is it? It doesn't even go to court, bit like a motoring offence.



I wonder how many other people also breached the letter of the law while keeping the spirit of it? Wonder how they would feel if they now received a penalty notice.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

"I don't think I did anything wrong" is something not unique to Boris. He could still argue that he was advised it was all above board but the investigation has found that he did breach the law and has been fined. Let's not lose sight of what "crime" was committed. It not quite Watergate is it? It doesn't even go to court, bit like a motoring offence.



I wonder how many other people also breached the letter of the law while keeping the spirit of it? Wonder how they would feel if they now received a penalty notice.

There is a difference between making a mistake and getting done for it and making a mistake and repeatedly covering up, misdirecting and basically lying about it. I think if Boris Johnson et al put their hands up after the first breaking of the story, the public might be much more forgiving. It's the continuous dishonesty alongside the original crimes that gives the appearance of a fundamental lack of respect for all of us who did what we were asked.

Or, to channel my South London upbringing - Boris Johnson thinks we are just a bunch of mugs and thinks he is better than us. He appears to have no respect for those that he serves. It's almost sociopathic...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I couldn’t give a toss, I flagrantly disobeyed the rules all the way through, as much of them were incoherent and inconsistent.

At least this may serve as a lesson to not blindly follow government edicts when they try to scare you to imprison yourself.

I see people sort of pouncing on Pierre. Perhaps the word "flagrantly" caught their eye; but then any wilful breach would be "flagrant", I suppose.

In all honesty, who didn't break the lockdown rules in one way or another? But then we did not make the rules nor are we the PM and therein lies the distinction.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

"I don't think I did anything wrong" is something not unique to Boris. He could still argue that he was advised it was all above board but the investigation has found that he did breach the law and has been fined. Let's not lose sight of what "crime" was committed. It not quite Watergate is it? It doesn't even go to court, bit like a motoring offence.

Breaking your own rules repeatedly either shows you're not not sharp enough to understand what you've just signed off on and told everyone else on national telly to do, or you feel that you're above the law. Neither of these makes you fit to govern in a Western democracy.

Doubtless more fines (which escalate in cost for repeat offenders) and pictures of unlawful indoor gatherings will come Johnson's way. The Police have only levied 50 fines for quick wins, there's more incidents to be investigated.

Under Johnson, the Party of law and order is fast becoming the Party and parties of law-breaking and disorder. It's reminiscent of the crumbling months of Major's regime. Perhaps this at least might provide Johnson with some comfort as Major has rehabilitated his reputation somewhat.

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But then we did not make the rules nor are we the PM and therein lies the distinction.

If Old Boy only takes on board once piece of insight from this thread today, this sentence would serve him well.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Maggy

I guess that you have nobody in your life who is likely to suffer from contracting Covid.However some of us do and that's why we stuck to the rules so as to protect them and I don't think it was too much to ask the same of you.

Was I expecting too much of your character?

Yes! Just assume the worst and most self centred attitude possible and you won't go far wrong.

[Pierre]

Lots of short memories on here on how ridiculous the lockdown rules were and how over zealous the police were.

Taped up park benches, police driving around parks on a loud speaker shouting “exercise only, no sunbathing”, sending up drones in the Peak District to spy on walkers, women fined for walking with takeaway coffees, people warned for breathing to heavily whilst running, being able to shop in a supermarket for booze but banned from buying clothes in the same shop, kids playgrounds taped up, “mandatory” mask wearing but you take them off to sing, I say “mandatory” but you could self-certify your requirement not to wear one, masks required in shops but not in pubs, put your mask on to walk the 5m from the pub/restaurant front door and take off at table.

I could go on, and on, and on, some devolved rules were even stupider.

So yes, when the rules were stupid and didn’t make a jot of sense, I ignored them, because I was taught not to do silly things that don’t make sense just because someone tells you to.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I see people sort of pouncing on Pierre. Perhaps the word "flagrantly" caught their eye; but then any wilful breach would be "flagrant", I suppose.

In all honesty, who didn't break the lockdown rules in one way or another? But then we did not make the rules nor are we the PM and therein lies the distinction.

Nope I didn’t.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I see people sort of pouncing on Pierre. Perhaps the word "flagrantly" caught their eye; but then any wilful breach would be "flagrant", I suppose.

In all honesty, who didn't break the lockdown rules in one way or another? But then we did not make the rules nor are we the PM and therein lies the distinction.

Nor did I

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

"I don't think I did anything wrong" is something not unique to Boris. He could still argue that he was advised it was all above board but the investigation has found that he did breach the law and has been fined. Let's not lose sight of what "crime" was committed. It not quite Watergate is it? It doesn't even go to court, bit like a motoring offence.



I wonder how many other people also breached the letter of the law while keeping the spirit of it? Wonder how they would feel if they now received a penalty notice.

Wonder how many MPs etc have been fined for motoring offences , perhaps they should also be asked to resign , at least one Welsh minister has recently been banned for speeding far more dangerous than having a piece of cake with people you have been working with all day

Originally Posted by Hugh

I don’t know anyone who felt "morally superior" for helping prevent spreading COVID - being socially responsible, probably, and thinking of others.

I'm pretty sure there are a few examples on this forum.

Despite what some say, I doubt anyone didnt break a rule at some point, intentionally or otherwise.
It wasnt always even clear cut what the rules were, they were open to a lot of interpretation.

[OLD BOY]

I agree. I come into contact with a lot of people in my line of activity, and even those who appear to be the last to disobey the law find (highly inappropriate) ways of justifying their transgressions.

Boris has nothing on them!

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I agree. I come into contact with a lot of people in my line of activity, and even those who appear to be the last to disobey the law find (highly inappropriate) ways of justifying their transgressions.

Boris has nothing on them!

... Except that your contacts did not lie to Parliament.

[1andrew1]

Tuesday could be interesting!

Boris Johnson faces prospect of vote over misleading parliament on ‘partygate’

The opposition Labour, Liberal Democrat and the Scottish National parties are in discussions over the best way to force a vote on whether Johnson brought parliament into disrepute when MPs return from the Easter break next week.

Johnson has publicly apologised for his “mistake” over attending a surprise birthday party for him in June 2020. “I deeply regret the frustration and anger caused and I am sorry,” he said.

However, opposition MPs are eager to force a vote over whether the prime minister misled the house. One way of doing so would be for MPs to trigger “contempt” proceedings, which could lead to Johnson being found in contempt of parliament.

If such a motion was granted by Sir Lindsay Hoyle, Commons speaker, Conservative MPs would likely be whipped against it. But one senior Labour MP said that even a failed vote could serve a political purpose.

“It would be very useful ahead of local elections in May to get the Tories trooping through the lobby to defend the prime minister,” the MP said. Another senior Liberal Democrat MP said they expected “a significant number” of Tories to abstain, which could “cause the government problems”.

https://www.ft.com/content/d6c0bdf5-...7-3dd0aefecfa2