Eurozone will collapse...

[Osem]

Fears are growing over the health of Greek banks after indications that savers have withdrawn billions of euros in the past week.

Capital flight from beleaguered Greek banks this week alone could be more than €4bn (£2.9bn), reports say.

Savers are moving funds as time runs out to resolve Greece's debt crisis.

The European Central Bank (ECB) has approved more emergency help for the banks and will review funding again on Monday, officials told news agencies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33195732

[TheDaddy]

More help for banks, just what's needed.

[Osem]

Just been listening to Mellor and Livingstone on LBC, highlighting the irony that, whilst the Germans were effectively spared countless billions in reparations after WWII, they're now in the driving seat in imposing stringent repayment conditions on Greece.

Did they also highlight the irony that most of the reason Greece is in deep doo-doo is that hardly anyone (businesses or individuals) pay tax, but expect huge Government payouts in the form of State Subsidies and extremely generous and early pensions?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Did they also highlight the irony that most of the reason Greece is in deep doo-doo is that hardly anyone (businesses or individuals) pay tax, but expect huge Government payouts in the form of State Subsidies and extremely generous and early pensions?

It's well known that across all of Greece, and there are many many islands of course. That tax collection, and administration thereof, is very poor.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Did they also highlight the irony that most of the reason Greece is in deep doo-doo is that hardly anyone (businesses or individuals) pay tax, but expect huge Government payouts in the form of State Subsidies and extremely generous and early pensions?

I think that's taken for granted to be honest and given that fact, perhaps it'd have been better all round of they hadn't been allowed into the club and allowed to borrow even more money even more cheaply in the first place. That's the EU for you though...

[Osem]

The head of Greece's biggest bank has said it would be "insane" not to reach an agreement at emergency talks on Monday on the country's debt crisis.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras will meet the leaders of the 18 other eurozone nations at a Brussels summit.

Louka Katseli, chair of the National Bank of Greece, told the BBC that banks were not under immediate threat of running out of money.

But she said the situation was serious, and without a deal would become severe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33215482

I think she's missing one key factor - they are mad!

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Osem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33215482

I think she's missing one key factor - they are mad!

Are they that mad? They keep getting billions thrown at them.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Are they that mad? They keep getting billions thrown at them.

The mad ones are those giving the billions to a clearly bankrupt state in order to maintain the vanity project.

[Osem]

@ Nomadking - I was referring to the Eurocrats being mad.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Hugh

extremely generous and early pensions?

http://news.sky.com/story/1504923/gr...a-too-generous

According to Eurostat's most recent 2012 data, pensions spending as a percentage of its output or GDP is 30% more generous in Greece than it is in the UK. Greece spends 14.3% of its GDP on old age pensions whilst the UK spends 11.0%

However, because Greek GDP came under sustained pressure during the recession, falling by a whopping 8.9% in 2011 alone, this has the effect of increasing the apparent generosity of Greek pensions.

Give our GDP the kind of drop the Greek economy has had and our pension spend as a proportion of the economy would be similarly large, not to mention:

How does this compare to our pensions?

UK pensions are not only far more generous than in Greece in absolute terms but they also benefit from the Chancellor's 'triple lock' protection.

This means that in any given year the amount that a pensioner receives will rise by whichever is highest out of inflation, the increase in average earnings or 2.5%.

The security of such a guarantee is no such luxury in Greece. Earlier this week I spoke to a Greek pensioner who had seen her pension shrink by nearly 25% since January 2012.

---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

It's well known that across all of Greece, and there are many many islands of course. That tax collection, and administration thereof, is very poor.

As I understand it reform of this is a big part of Syriza's offer, however the troika would prefer them to tax essentials like electricity and food more heavily, alongside cutting pensions that have already dropped by a quarter.

I can't blame Syriza for telling the troika where to go. Their demands will further harm the Greeks' ability to generate wealth. Greek debt isn't sustainable, the troika screwed up by bailing out banks and putting taxpayers' money on the line, now they should have to explain their actions in the case of the Eurozone nations to the electorate.

Greece hasn't been bailed out of anything. Deutsche Bank and others have in an attempt to preserve Germany's mercantilism in the Eurozone.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Osem

@ Nomadking - I was referring to the Eurocrats being mad.

Billions are being thrown at the Eurocrats so they can in turn throw it at the Greeks.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Billions are being thrown at the Eurocrats so they can in turn throw it at the Greeks.

-Greeks +Eurozone banks.

Who loaned it to the Greek banks....

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Who loaned it to the Greek banks....

And who should bare the losses rather than palming them off on taxpayers via this bailout.

This bailout was a breach of the IMF's own rules and nothing more than an attempt to keep the political project that is the Euro running. The Greeks are not a consideration here.