Football : Season 08/09

[punky]

Originally Posted by Damien

Spoilt :P Spurs are rich as well! You just keep firing all your managers

I meant spoilt for success. The top 4 is a ridiculous monopoly that ruins football for the rest of the EPL. Aston Villa gave us a glimmer of hope but ultimately we knew what was going to happen. For our topsy turvy season being at the bottom is more interesting and exciting than at the top.

And btw, although our owner (Joe Lewis) is rich, we aren't another Chelsea. The club is owned by ENIC rather than Lewis personally, and it is run ruthlessly as a business. That's why we are one of the most profitible clubs in the EPL, despite a lack of success. Lewis doesn't just throw unlimited supplies of money at the club like Ambramovic causing massive losses.

[pedantic]

Originally Posted by punky

Lewis doesn't just throw unlimited supplies of money at the club like Ambramovic causing massive losses.

Playing devils advocate for a minute...

But you do realise that Spurs are only £13 million behind Chelsea, regarding the purchases of players, over the past 5 seasons? So very little in it.

Originally Posted by punky

I meant spoilt for success. The top 4 is a ridiculous monopoly that ruins football for the rest of the EPL. Aston Villa gave us a glimmer of hope but ultimately we knew what was going to happen. For our topsy turvy season being at the bottom is more interesting and exciting than at the top.

And btw, although our owner (Joe Lewis) is rich, we aren't another Chelsea. The club is owned by ENIC rather than Lewis personally, and it is run ruthlessly as a business. That's why we are one of the most profitible clubs in the EPL, despite a lack of success. Lewis doesn't just throw unlimited supplies of money at the club like Ambramovic causing massive losses.

Well nor does Wenger, Arshavin was probably the most expensive player brought by him and that was still cheap for what we got. So although we are one of the 'big 4' it was not though excessive spending. It's a credit to Wenger he has made Arsenal a top 4 team and makes a profit overall.

---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------

Originally Posted by pedantic

But you do realise that Spurs are only £13 million behind Chelsea, regarding the purchases of players, over the past 5 seasons? So very little in it.

Does that include players sold though? Is there a list somewhere?

[pedantic]

Originally Posted by Damien

Does that include players sold though? Is there a list somewhere?

I only said purchases, but there is a list here which tells you purchases, and also figures for sold players (and obviously net figures too) In that respect Spurs have done better business in the selling of players (5 year figures)

Arsenal have done particularly well, as you alluded to.

Haha Middlesbrough have spent more than us constantly

[sherer]

to be fair a lot of leagues suffer from the same problem. Lyon have won about 6 leagues in a row in France. In Spain the league is nearly always Real or Barca with the odd other team getting a title here or there. Portugal it is Benfica, Sporting and Porto and both Rangers and Celtic have won 9 in a row in the past

[Niles Crane]

A Kenyan fan of English football club Arsenal has hanged himself after his team's defeat by Manchester United.

The north London club was beaten 3-1 in the European Champions League semi-final second leg on Tuesday evening.

Suleiman Omondi, 29, who was watching in a bar in the capital, Nairobi, was incensed by the club's poor showing.

He left at half-time after arguing with a Manchester United fan and was found hanging from a rope in his house, still dressed in an Arsenal shirt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8036367.stm

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by Niles Crane

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8036367.stm

As much as i feel sorry for this guy, football is no reason to top yourself. IMO he must have had mental health problems (or have been drunk) to have been pushed over the edge by this.

[punky]

Originally Posted by pedantic

Playing devils advocate for a minute...

But you do realise that Spurs are only £13 million behind Chelsea, regarding the purchases of players, over the past 5 seasons? So very little in it.

Except we've sold a lot to fund it. We made £20m on Berbascum. We made something like £11m on Keane and then bought him back at another profit.

We've spent money within a tight business model but we've also earnt it by selling a lot of players. And those purchases has spread quite a few players. We haven't just gone out and spunks £30m on Berbascum, £30m on Ferdinand (and that was what, 8 years ago?) and possibly another £30m on Tevez, £60m on Ribery? Our top signing is Modric at £16m and that's less than what you paid for van Nistelrooy in the 90s. Also our wage structure is on a feasible business model, not the £125k a week Ronaldo gets. You can't compare.

Anyway, money doesn't make success as City will find out. The players won't come unless you are in the top 4, and you can't get into the top 4 without them. Its a vicious circle. So unless you can fluke it, or a team implodes, you're screwed. Everton managed it once, Villa almost managed it. That's it. If a team does find decent talent and convince them to come the top 4 teams circle and swoop in. It happened with Berbascum and already the reports have Lennon going everywhere in the north west along with Modric.

[pedantic]

First of all, if you're going to start with names like Berbascum, how can anyone take your posts seriously. What is it with you Spurs supporters, players leave, and your necks extend like a giraffe. Sol Campbell anyone?

Originally Posted by punky

We've spent money within a tight business model but we've also earnt it by selling a lot of players. And those purchases has spread quite a few players. We haven't just gone out and spunks £30m on Berbascum, £30m on Ferdinand (and that was what, 8 years ago?) and possibly another £30m on Tevez, £60m on Ribery? Our top signing is Modric at £16m and that's less than what you paid for van Nistelrooy in the 90s. Also our wage structure is on a feasible business model, not the £125k a week Ronaldo gets. You can't compare.

If Spurs want to keep spending at Lidl's go ahead, if you want decent players, you'll have to start shopping at Harrods like we have to. Given the choice, I'm sure we would rather not be ripped off by clubs (including yours) by inflating the price, because of who we are. And the players we have bought at inflated prices have so far served us well, whereas you've spent significantly more in the transfer market in the last 5 years (and sold more, although your overall net is more than us) and have a carling cup to show for it.

[barby81]

This is a really sad story.

I really don't understand why he did it, Ok so its disappointing that the gunners didn't make the final but I think their team is full of promise for next season. Its a shame he didn't share this view.

[punky]

Originally Posted by pedantic

First of all, if you're going to start with names like Berbascum, how can anyone take your posts seriously. What is it with you Spurs supporters, players leave, and your necks extend like a giraffe. Sol Campbell anyone?

I don't think its out of order to expect a bit of loyalty and decency from players. The way Berbatov behaved was out of order. As for the patronising "your Spurs supporters", have you heard people criticise or boo Sheringham? Or Carrick? No. Sheringham earned his release and Carrick was sold fair and square and acted like a gentleman about it.

And before you extend your neck to far, what about Ronaldo? He never even got to leave and you lot turned on him. If he did leave I find it hard to believe you'd all be sending him good luck cards.

If Spurs want to keep spending at Lidl's go ahead, if you want decent players, you'll have to start shopping at Harrods like we have to. Given the choice, I'm sure we would rather not be ripped off by clubs (including yours) by inflating the price, because of who we are. And the players we have bought at inflated prices have so far served us well, whereas you've spent significantly more in the transfer market in the last 5 years (and sold more, although your overall net is more than us) and have a carling cup to show for it.

Shopping at Lidl's? Well that's a funny thing to say considering how many of our players you buy (at an expensive mark up), And you miss my point. City can afford to go out and buy Kaka, Eto'o, etc. Would they come? No. Even if they did, would it guarantee success? No. Joe Lewis is worth £2.8bn so if he wanted to he could buy those players out of the change he finds down the back of the sofa. He knows its a business, not Football Manager.

Lest we get tied up in yet another debate on money, let's go back to where this started. Damien was moaning about the lack of success. They won the FA cup in 2005 and the league in 2004. That's not bad at all and that's not anything to be moaning about. Most clubs never get near that. The top 4 have such a monopoly I do sometimes wish they'd sod off and form their own league, leaving us normal clubs to play amongst outselves. The top of the league isn't really that exciting as United only go off top spot when they have 2 games in hand. Whereas the bottom of the table is far more exciting.

I'm reminded of a parable I was told at school. Man dies and when he arrives in the afterlife, he sees its all nice and is relieved as he is in heaven. The guide asks him what he likes to do. He said he likes to play piano and would love to give a performance one day. The guide said it shall be done. He's setup on stage with his piano. He plays perfectly and the crowd loves him. So he has to play again. And again. After a long while he wants to leave but can't. After many months, he is still playing the same songs with the same rousing performance. He asks his guide if he can leave or do something else, the guide says he can't. He said "but this is hell" and the guide says "Exactly".

Or put this way, if you win a race against a load of 1-legged people, is it exciting? Sense of acheivement? Not likely.

[pedantic]

Originally Posted by punky

have you heard people criticise or boo Sheringham? Or Carrick? No. Sheringham earned his release and Carrick was sold fair and square and acted like a gentleman about it.

What a selective memory you have there. Sheringham was hounded when he returned to Spurs, I remember it well, he missed a penalty as a result of the crap he was getting. You'll be telling me next Spuds supporters didn't abuse Sol Campbell earlier in the season, despite the fact he was playing for Portsmouth (psst, he doesn't play for Arsenal anymore). Not like Spuds supporters to hold a grudge is it.

Originally Posted by punky

And before you extend your neck to far, what about Ronaldo? He never even got to leave and you lot turned on him. If he did leave I find it hard to believe you'd all be sending him good luck cards.

Who turned on him? Me? Please quote me at your earliest opportunity. If Ronaldo goes, he goes, everyone is replaceable, we've done it before.

Originally Posted by punky

Joe Lewis is worth £2.8bn so if he wanted to he could buy those players out of the change he finds down the back of the sofa.

So why doesn't he then? Chelsea wasn't a huge name in football (in comparison with today) spend the dosh, the players will come, just as they will with man city. There are plenty of mercenaries knocking about.

Originally Posted by punky

Or put this way, if you win a race against a load of 1-legged people, is it exciting? Sense of acheivement? Not likely.

What a cynic you are. The whole reason for the success of the premier league teams in europe is because of the league as a whole. I don't see the same success coming out of Scotland, where your analogy is probably correct, maybe you're confusing the two. You don't do as well as the English teams have been doing, by competing against 1-legged people (as you put it).

I think Pedantic makes two good points:

1) I agree that the strength of the teams throughout the league is very strong and this is why the top 4 are so strong in Europe. They play in the hardest league in the world. While it is true that the top 4 finish in the top 4 every year it's not without difficulty. Both Arsenal and Chelsea were at risk of losing a Champions League spot.

2) Sol Campbell did get awful abuse, and still does, and White Hart Lane. This is not indicative of spurs as a whole but it's was very nasty and I think he was loyal to Spurs.He saw out his contract and left..

[Bulky]

banana boots John Terry not happy again