Unstoppable migration?

[jackjone]

Originally Posted by Osem

I imagine he'd very soon change his mind if his very cosy little number was taken by someone willing and able to do it for less. Corbyn and his ilk haven't lived in the real world for a very long time and certainly don't represent those in our society who are deprived of a similarly cosseted existence.

They bang on endlessly about how our services can't cope whilst at the same time claiming that millions more people entering the UK have no negative impact and it's all good for us. Why would anyone believe such BS?

That'a a great point Osem. When I worked in recruitment, approximately 10 years ago, many advertised jobs would receive around 20 to 30 applications for consideration. I now see advertisements for some clerical/lower paid positions in the NHS (certainly in my area) advising that candidates should submit their application at the earliest opportunity as the post will close after the first 100 applications have been received.

If the employment situation 10 years ago was as it is now, many would not have the same job they do now due to increased competition and the availability of more economical labour costs. I personally believe that, in some cases, British citizens are being overlooked in favour of bi or multi-lingual candidates given the increased number of languages being spoken now within the UK and businesses of course will take advantage of this. As Brits, we were never encouraged to become bi-lingual as we expected everyone else to speak our language. Many European countries do business in their native tongue so we don't have the same opportunities in Europe as Europeans do in Britain. Again, this puts us at a disadvantage - unless of course we all now learn to speak another language fluently.

This does not have the same impact for 'highly-skilled/professional' job seekers as in many cases, we recruit internationally to get the best of the best. It does have an impact on non-professional and unskilled workers who, if unable to find employment in cities which have a high level of 'economic migrants' end up having to claim benefits to support their family. Due to the availability of cheaper labour, the 'living wage' realistically is not a 'living wage'. This situation will not likely improve if the additional countries waiting to join the EU are approved. We simply can't have an open door policy. Not only in respect of employment issues, but for many other issues too.

You may question whether this is contradictory or not. If someone enters the UK on an employment visa, there is a requirement to have a certain level of English speaking skills. With an open door policy, there is no requirement. Many Europeans speak good English but many don't.

Kudos to the NHS worker who told it as it is.

---------- Post added at 07:29 ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Taf

I've been to Casualty Units where there are 2 posters. The first is written in several languages stating "This is my language", and the casualty is asked to identify their own language. The other is full of flags of nations in ase they say they can't read.

If they can't read, a translator is called to speak on the phone.

If they can read, out come laminated sheets of questions and answers.

The first questions usually stump many, but often the first, even for people from the EU:

"Are you registered with a GP in the UK?"

"Do you live in this country? If so provide proof of domicile"

"Are you a visitor to this country?"

"Are you a visitor from the EEC, if so do you have your European Health Card?"

"Do you have proof of identity?"

"Are you an asylum seeker. or do you have Leave to Remain in the UK?"

"Do you understand that if you are not entitled, you will be charged for all treatment?"

At my last appointment, I was asked to bring some ID with me but no-one asked to see it. I think some hospitals have more stringent requirements than others. Unfortunately, some do still slip through.

False ID is easy and cheap to purchase overseas and within the UK and many, whose responsibility it is to check the ID/documentation provided, won't easily recognise whether it is fraudulent or not. It therefore isn't always difficult to register with a GP if you have 'taken care' of the necessary documentation.

I recall a case (I think it was detailed on Panorama or Despatches or some similar programme) where an administrator in a GP Practice sold NHS cards to health tourists to enable them to receive their treatment in the UK. He made a tidy income from it before he was caught. It cost the NHS quite a bit.

If that isn't bad enough, what about the misuse of the EHIC card all around Europe which puts a huge financial burden on the NHS. Check out the Mail Online from August 2015 headed "Ministers order urgent investigation into 'completely unacceptable' revelations foreigners are charging the NHS for care in their OWN country".

Hopefully,for the sake of our NHS things will improve. Although there has been slight improvement in certain areas and surgeries/hospitals are being a little more pro-active in trying to combat health fraud, it's just not quite there at the moment.

God bless our NHS.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Well it happens. An example we have had some patients that come from the czech they just stepped off a plane and did the rounds around the UK. they turned up on our ward for treatment and after an investigation we were told that day we couldn't treat them.

What happened 2 days later they came back and we were told we had to treat them. they stayed with us for about 2 months then went back home again.

6 months later we heard they were back in London but haven't heard from them up here.

Same again coming from the EU same results had to treat them then they went away we had to keep their space open for 2 months and they never came back had to give their spot away to another patient. then what after about 4 months they just turned up one day so we were told to treat them.

turns out their "tesio line" for treatment wasn't working and in their country they had to pay for a new one costing about £1,500 so what happened good old NHS paid for it.

They stayed with us for about 2 months then went back home again.

3 months later they came back this time they actually brought someone back with them they were friends in their home country and the guy couldn't even speak any english. but he also had renal failure.

What was the end result the Matron was on our ward that day after some meetings with her and the top brass they decided to hire a translator at the cost of £150 hr and even he struggled to get the information the trust needed.

So they treated him anyway. So they end result were is this woman and this man now...they went back home again.

Here is an example of another patient we used to have Article is from 2013

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_3660419.html

She came here as a student and got ill had a transplant and the article explains the rest.


So do they come here to use the NHS yes renal failure as an example is long term only a transplant can cure it and this isn't a life long guarantee some fail right away some last 7+ years and then there is follow up app anti rejection drugs.

Treatment is around 50k a year per patient per year so you tell me someone in their own country that has to pay for it themselves has this kind of money?

It happens a lot. We all know it but of course those who don't want any controls on immigration can't afford to admit it in just the same way that they continue to deny there's any negative impact of mass uncontrolled migration. The accusations of racism are their chosen means to stifle debate and they've been able to get away with it for years. They have no answers, they just try to smear people who dare to tell the truth. If it wasn't so serious it'd be truly laughable that they continue to peddle this nonsense. Voting to remain in the EU will guarantee more of the same, probably worse as migrants are shifted from one country to another to suit big business and the political leaders who all to often do their bidding. The collateral damage is the lives, neighbourhoods, jobs and services of ordinary people NOT the great and the good who've insulated themselves from all of that in the same way they always do. They like to tell us how normal they are but once inside the club, many of them soon forget all that. Labour have spent the last 6-7 years telling us all how bad our services, housing, labour market etc. are but at the same time they're telling us there should be no limit on migration. Tell me who'll be paying the price - us or them?...

Cameron made me laugh the other day when he claimed that EU migrants who can't work will have to leave the UK. What he didn't explain is exactly what the mechanism for making them leave is. Can you imagine some toothless border force turning up at their doors and taking them to the airport? I don't think so. The reality will be that we'll be stuck with those who want to stay because remaining in the UK is better than going home to nothing. FGS it takes them years to deal with people who have no right to be here at all and many of them are eventually allowed to remain...

[jackjone]

Originally Posted by Osem

It happens a lot. We all know it but of course those who don't want any controls on immigration can't afford to admit it in just the same way that they continue to deny there's any negative impact of mass uncontrolled migration. If it wasn't so serious it'd be truly laughable that they continue to peddle this nonsense. Voting to remain in the EU will guarantee more of the same, probably worse as migrants are shifted from one country to another to suit big business and the political leaders who do their bidding. The collateral damage is the lives, neighbourhoods, jobs and services of ordinary people NOT the great and the good who've insulated themselves from all of that in the same way they always do. Labour have spent the last 6 years telling us all how bad our services, housing, labour market etc. are but at the same time they're telling us there should be no limit on migration. Tell me who'll be paying the price - us or them?...

Cameron made me laugh the other day when he claimed that EU migrants who can't work will have to leave the UK. What he didn't explain is exactly what the mechanism for making them leave is. Can you imagine some toothless border force turning up at their doors and taking them to the airport? I don't think so. The reality will be that we'll be stuck with those who want to stay because remaining in the UK is better than going home to nothing. FGS it takes them years to deal with people who have no right to be here at all and many of them are eventually allowed to remain...

Yes, I agree. I have watched Border Control and many who have entered the country illegally are not returned to their home country because their passport has been 'lost'. There must be magpie's nests all around the UK full to the brim with lost passports. It would be interesting to know if an EU Passport would be needed to send an out of work migrant home or not. Just curious....

[Osem]

Originally Posted by jackjone

Yes, I agree. I have watched Border Control and many who have entered the country illegally are not returned to their home country because their passport has been 'lost'. There must be magpie's nests all around the UK full to the brim with lost passports. It would be interesting to know if an EU Passport would be needed to send an out of work migrant home or not. Just curious....

Without any proof of ID that EU migrant can claim to be anyone from anywhere which is the trick so many of the non-EU illegals use in order to draw out proceedings and give them time to build a case for staying even if that means paying someone to marry them or having children. How long does it take for the authorities to get to the truth given the huge illegal immigration task they're still struggling with? There are countless thousands of people whose circumstances are well known who're still waiting for final decisions years along the line. Anyone would think the UK didn't want to remove illegals...

In all the debate we've had on this subject I've yet to hear anyone satisfactorily explain why we shouldn't be concerned about uncontrollable migration. Not only the movement of EU citizens but a vast number of poor and desperate people on the move and heading our way. My argument is that we need to do something about that before we see in the UK the sort of scenes which are evident within the EU. The 'refugee' problems haven't gone away - they may have disappeared from the media over the last few weeks but make no mistake, the flood of migrants is a big as ever and our glorious leaders have no answer to it. The one thing we can be sure of is that it won't be them who pay the price for their failed policies, it'll be us.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I mentioned 140 patients coming to my ward for treatment and out of them 140 100 are of a different nationality.

Mostly Asian but it wasn't a race thing I was just giving the numbers you take it how you want

Fair enough .. thanks for explaining

[Osem]

The number of people displaced by conflict is at the highest level ever recorded, the UN refugee agency says. It estimates that 65.3m people were either refugees, asylum seekers or internally displaced at the end of 2015, an increase of 5m in a year.
This represents one in every 113 people on the planet, the UN agency says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36573082

How many of these people are heading towards the EU? Everyone's entitled to their own view of course but I have a sneaky feeling* that as the numbers getting into Europe steadily increase it will start to dawn on people just what the scale and repercussions of this problem are. Once you've given people hope of a new, better, life it's hard to deprive them of it. Furthermore, those who hitherto would have stayed at home and suffered now have the expectation that if they can just make it to Europe, they'll be OK. Try stopping a force as fundamental as that. Not only are we giving them false hope, we're putting them into the hands of traffickers who'll happily take their money and watch them die.

How many more examples do we need to prove that the course we're on is a route to disaster?...

* confirmed by what we've already witnessed happenning in the EU.

[Osem]

Just in case anyone thought the bad news had all gone away.

The Italian navy and coastguard say they have rescued about 4,500 migrants from dozens of small boats in the Mediterranean during the course of Thursday.

A woman's body was recovered from one of the vessels.

More favourable weather conditions have resulted in a major increase in the number of people leaving north Africa.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36611059

Still waiting for Plan B...

[techguyone]

Plan B would be to not rescue them.

We're just encouraging them to try for it as they know there's a good chance they'll be rescued and end up where they want.

And before anyone accuses me of wanting deaths etc, I'd tow them back.

I'd imagine if that happened for a while, it'd pretty much put the smugglers off from trying that route.

[Chrysalis]

For the curious.

I emailed my mayor asking why the council is not allowing people to apply for affordable homes as is required by EU human rights laws.

I got a reply stating due to severe pressure on housing, only the homeless are eligible.

I reminded him other (neighbouring) council's are not doing the same.

Second reply said the council are been compliant with UK laws (Defensive?).

I finally asked him have the council volunteered to house syria refugees, and if yes can he confirm the local housing crisis at the same time.

There was no reply initially, but then his deputy replied stating he can confirm Leics City council has offered to house syria refugees and that applications for housing are closed to anyone not homeless due to severe pressure.

I didnt ask any more questions, just in shock, that is to me a indirect admittance of a link between immigration and availability of social housing.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Plan B would be to not rescue them.

They learned a long, long time ago to scupper their boats close to land or to a ship that by international law is obliged to save them.

Strafe or burn the empty boats on the Libyan coast?

[Osem]

and this is how 'secure' our borders are:

Fake passports readily available and not even always checked.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_...44910/36744910

He arrives, claims asylum at the airport and then...

On the face of it, this guy has my sympathies but he could be anyone couldn't he.

[Julian]

I had to get rid of a wasp's nest last year because I couldn't identify which ones might sting me......

[Julian]

Dozens arrested for illegally working at Byron Burger chain

Unsurprisingly the drugged up student brigade have started a hashtag to boycott the company because it helped to expose the scam.

[Osem]

Yes well they would do. They need a hobby during the long summer months out of uni...

It'd be interesting to find out what actually happens to all these illegals but I'd imagine a good few will somehow or other be allowed to stay here. The truth is that HMG has a much better track record of publicising high profile crackdowns such as this than actually removing those who've been caught having come here to abuse the immigration and asylum system (if you can call it that...).

We should never forget that there are 2 ends of the spectrum of illegal immigration - on the one hand those who come, work illegally and keep their heads down but then there are those who, taking advantage of the very same loopholes, faked documents, lack of checks etc. and are involved in such things as terrorism, murder, drugs, gun running, people trafficking, prostitution, scamming and all manner of other highly dubious activities.

I'd suggest the students forget their silly burger boycott and start showing their disdain for a broken system which creates so much misery and abuse for those at the sharp end of it.

[heero_yuy]

Since they'll have blown the grant on other frippery they'll be living on cans of economy beans so a boycott is worth diddly squat to the burger company.