04-07-2021, 12:45
|
#1591
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,492
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Yes, it does. If we don’t connect cause and effect, how will we ever learn?
|
Haha, quite!
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 12:55
|
#1592
|
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 37,073
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
|
Just checking your terminology here … do you mean equivalence, or alignment? They’re not the same. Agreed equivalence is a fairly standard aspect of an international trade deal in which both sides agree to accept each other’s standards as equally high even if they differ on the details. Alignment is when one or both sides insist that products imported into their market must comply with their market’s rules.
The reason I’m asking is, Euphiles and remainiacs generally advocate for alignment, because they see it as a way of keeping the UK close to the EU (presumably with the long-term aim of rejoining). Brexiteers oppose alignment, because the whole point of Brexit was to give us freedom to set our own market rules. Alignment with the EU requires us to implement directives set in Brussels, without any longer having the ability to influence the way those rules are formulated. That clearly is a worse democratic position than before.
Mutual acceptance of standards as equivalent, however, is something that neither the UK nor the EU should have any problems with, if they are motivated by willingness to deal and pragmatism as to solutions. In fact I believe mutual acceptance is what the UK has advocated for, not just with regards to NI but broadly in our futures arrangement with the EU. I suspect that this has not been reciprocated and it is the EU that is exhibiting a lack of pragmatism in refusing to allow chilled, processed meats to enter the single market from the UK.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 13:22
|
#1593
|
Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Just checking your terminology here … do you mean equivalence, or alignment? They’re not the same. Agreed equivalence is a fairly standard aspect of an international trade deal in which both sides agree to accept each other’s standards as equally high even if they differ on the details. Alignment is when one or both sides insist that products imported into their market must comply with their market’s rules.
The reason I’m asking is, Euphiles and remainiacs generally advocate for alignment, because they see it as a way of keeping the UK close to the EU (presumably with the long-term aim of rejoining). Brexiteers oppose alignment, because the whole point of Brexit was to give us freedom to set our own market rules. Alignment with the EU requires us to implement directives set in Brussels, without any longer having the ability to influence the way those rules are formulated. That clearly is a worse democratic position than before.
Mutual acceptance of standards as equivalent, however, is something that neither the UK nor the EU should have any problems with, if they are motivated by willingness to deal and pragmatism as to solutions. In fact I believe mutual acceptance is what the UK has advocated for, not just with regards to NI but broadly in our futures arrangement with the EU. I suspect that this has not been reciprocated and it is the EU that is exhibiting a lack of pragmatism in refusing to allow chilled, processed meats to enter the single market from the UK.
|
Pierre clearly exposes the Teashop's weasel worded (perfidious?) hypocrisy. The Teashop extols the magnanimity of the EU -whereas that "magnanimity" is no more than kicking the dispute can down the road. The Teashop demands reciprocity of goodwill from the UK but provides no hint of what ground the EU might give. They'll simply accuse us of intransigence in the face of their generosity.
Alignment is a MUST NOT. Equivalence is what they viciously withold because they are punishing the UK.
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 17:25
|
#1594
|
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,105
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Today marks 245 years, American Independence Day, when the United States of America, left Britain without a deal.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 17:44
|
#1595
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,492
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
And look what a hellhole it has become.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 18:01
|
#1596
|
vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
And look what a hellhole it has become.
|
look at the idiot in charge.
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 18:05
|
#1597
|
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,105
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
And look what a hellhole it has become.
|
Yep, especially in Democrat run States.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 18:31
|
#1598
|
Sad Doig Fan!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barry South Wales
Age: 68
Services: With VM for BB 250Mb service.(Deal)
Posts: 11,679
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
look at the idiot in charge.
|
Better than the idiot before.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 19:54
|
#1599
|
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,105
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456
Better than the idiot before.
|
It’s debatable when Democrats run around officially boasting about saving Americans $0.16 (Yes, they actually did this http://www.nypost.com/2021/07/01/whi...4-cookout/amp/ ) buying barbecue stuff for the 4th July celebrations, compared to last years prices. But gas (Petrol) ⛽️ prices through roof over there and they’re rising steadily over here too.
Meanwhile Nissan isn’t leaving the UK like the Remain maniacs, said they would. £1 Billion investment, kerching.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 20:59
|
#1600
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,327
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
Today marks 245 years, American Independence Day, when the United States of America, left Britain without a deal.
|
Don't give Scotland any ideas, Mick!
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 21:50
|
#1601
|
cf.addict
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Teesside
Services: Tivo. XL (tv) L (bb)
Posts: 122
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
It’s debatable when Democrats run around officially boasting about saving Americans $0.16 (Yes, they actually did this http://www.nypost.com/2021/07/01/whi...4-cookout/amp/ ) buying barbecue stuff for the 4th July celebrations, compared to last years prices. But gas (Petrol) ⛽️ prices through roof over there and they’re rising steadily over here too.
Meanwhile Nissan isn’t leaving the UK like the Remain maniacs, said they would. £1 Billion investment, kerching.
|
no they got 1 billion of tax payers money to stay
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 21:52
|
#1602
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,492
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Or a "DUP bribe" as it's called in modern parlance.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 22:16
|
#1603
|
Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43
no they got 1 billion of tax payers money to stay
|
I hope so. That's what governments are for - protect and develop the economy.
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 22:19
|
#1604
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,327
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
British produce to rot in the fields, with demands filled by imports. How can this situation be turned around? Mechanisation? A campaign to get people to work in agriculture? Or should we focus on more value-added industries?
Quote:
For the past 38 years Tim Clarke has relied on seasonal pickers from eastern Europe to harvest peas and other vegetables he grows on his farm near Chichester.
This year, however, he has been able to hire only 75 per cent of the 50 workers he needs, meaning tonnes of vegetables are being left to rot. “The whole thing is ludicrous,” said Clarke. “We’ve sold this product to supermarkets and they’re complaining because they’re not getting it.”
|
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...tead-dxsmbg2rw [subscription]
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 23:34
|
#1605
|
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 37,073
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
I highly doubt he was relying on Eastern European labour in 1983. The Cold War was a little fraught around then.
Regardless, one of the many dodgy consequences of free movement has been the ready availability of cheap, mobile, flexible labour from unaligned, less advanced economies that workers whose livelihoods are rooted in the UK simply cannot compete with. Some British businesses have become hooked on it, and frankly Mr Clarke’s complaints ought to be viewed in a similar way to those of a smackhead moaning that he can’t get his next fix. The solution for our economy is a combination of economic methodone or cold turkey, as befits each case. But he and others need to understand that the exploitable labour tap has been turned off.
Those who survive will be those who find ways to mechanise, or to create sustainable work patterns for primarily British workers, with seasonal migrants plugging gaps, not undercutting locals.
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:16.
|