UK Energy Prices

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

Maybe Germany and the EU are more risk averse while our government are more gung ho when looking at the same set of data.

Same set of data? UK relied on 5% of it's gas from Russia, EU 40%, Germany 55%.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Same set of data? UK relied on 5% of it's gas from Russia, EU 40%, Germany 55%.

OK if we're being pedantic. Maybe Germany and the EU looked at their report and decided to take a risk averse approach, while in the UK maybe we looked at our report and decided to take a more gung-ho approach.

[jonbxx]

The difference in Germany is that they do have quite large gas storage facilities which they have been filling during the summer. What they don’t want is these to empty rapidly in the winter, remembering that winters in Germany are much colder than here. Once empty, the energy suppliers will exposed to the market cost at possibly the worst time due to demand.

The energy restrictions are pretty light touch to be fair;

- Retail stores may no longer keep their doors open throughout the day to reduce electricity consumption for air conditioning when it is hot outside — and for heating on cold winter days


- Illuminated advertising must be switched off after 10p.m., with only a few exceptions. If advertisements serve traffic safety, they remain switched on, for example, at railroad underpasses. Street lamps also remain on, and store windows may continue to be illuminated

- Monuments and other buildings may no longer be illuminated at night. At least not for purely aesthetic reasons. However, emergency lighting will not be switched off, and illumination is permitted for cultural events and public festivals.

- In public buildings, halls and corridors will generally no longer be heated, and the temperature in offices will be limited to a maximum of 19 degrees. In places where heavy physical work is performed, temperatures will be even lower in the future. However, the restrictions do not apply to social facilities such as hospitals, daycare centers, and schools, where higher air temperatures are essential for the "health of the people who spend time there," according to the Economy Ministry

- Cutting back on warm water. Likewise, in public buildings, instantaneous water heaters or hot water tanks should be switched off if they are mainly used for washing hands. Exceptions are made for medical facilities, schools, and daycare centers. Some cities go even further. There, the showers in swimming pools and sports halls will remain unheated

- Private pools may no longer be heated with gas and electricity, except for rehab centers, recreational facilities, and hotels. The new regulations will initially apply until the end of February.

From here - https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-energ...rce/a-62996041

https://www.theguardian.com/business...elivers-u-turn

Power giants to face windfall tax after all as Liz Truss delivers U-turn

Renewable power companies will have their revenues capped in England and Wales, after the government bowed to pressure to clamp down on runaway profits.

The announcement late on Tuesday night provoked immediate accusations that Downing Street had performed “another screeching U-turn” – having previously rejected calls to impose a windfall tax on power giants.

On the leadership trail, Liz Truss repeatedly resisted calls to cap huge profits being generated by power companies, after Boris Johnson’s government imposed a £5bn windfall tax on oil and gas companies in May, taking a slice of their profits.

The business department said it was stepping in with a temporary “cost-plus revenue limit” for renewable and nuclear electricity generators in England and Wales. This will curb the amount generators can make, “allowing generators to cover their costs, plus receive an appropriate revenue”, and will come into force at the start of next year.

The detail was contained in the government’s new energy prices bill, which limits power prices for households at an average of £2,500 a year and is estimated will cost taxpayers about £89bn. It has been estimated that taxing generators such as wind and solar farms could raise between £3bn and £4bn to help offset some of this cost.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

https://www.theguardian.com/business...elivers-u-turn

It's not a windfall tax though is it. This is the very thing that Chris alluded to weeks ago.

The cost of generating electricity varies in regards to the means of production. However, the price passed onto the consumer is always pegged at the most expensive.

This is just a move to redress that, and the correct think to do.

Indeed … this is a bit of disappointing politicking from the Graun, who at any other time would be bleating about the absurdity of our energy market, designed as it is to pay all generators the price being demanded by whoever happens to be the most expensive (which as we all know is presently those fuelled by gas, by a country mile). The formula was intended to be a form of subsidy for renewable generators in their infancy but has become a means of profiteering thanks to the perverse (if not entirely unforseeeable) effects of the present gas price crisis.

The government’s measures are a sticking plaster, and they are indeed a ridiculous climbdown from leadership campaign pledges that obviously should never have been made, but they are not a windfall tax on renewable generators, and it helps nobody to suggest that they are.

For me, however, the single most dreadful line in the entire piece is the blatant hint at blackmail from SSE, which wants its hydro plants exempted. If they are not, SSE argues, then it might not be financially worth their while to switch them on at moments of peak demand, and there are then risks to the national grid and energy security. Translation: let us keep gouging the public or we might decide to sit back and watch the lights go off.

Despite my years of right-leaning politics, if I were a government minister in the room when that was put on the table, I’d have been presenting them with my plan to bring their business under emergency state control. And let it be known that that’s what I’d done, with all the amusing knock-on effects for their share price.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It's not a windfall tax though is it. This is the very thing that Chris alluded to weeks ago.

The cost of generating electricity varies in regards to the means of production. However, the price passed onto the consumer is always pegged at the most expensive.

This is just a move to redress that, and the correct think to do.

The term comes probably from a quote from RWE but the headline writer seems to have dropped "De facto" from the description.

RWE UK country chair Tom Glover said the measure was a “de facto ‘windfall tax’ on low-carbon generators that, if not designed and implemented correctly, could have severe negative consequences for investment in the renewable and wider energy market”.

https://www.ft.com/content/f0e1496b-...c-a2c6befffa87
"British low-carbon generators face de facto windfall tax"

---------- Post added at 11:23 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

For me, however, the single most dreadful line in the entire piece is the blatant hint at blackmail from SSE, which wants its hydro plants exempted. If they are not, SSE argues, then it might not be financially worth their while to switch them on at moments of peak demand, and there are then risks to the national grid and energy security. Translation: let us keep gouging the public or we might decide to sit back and watch the lights go off.

Despite my years of right-leaning politics, if I were a government minister in the room when that was put on the table, I’d have been presenting them with my plan to bring their business under emergency state control. And let it be known that that’s what I’d done, with all the amusing knock-on effects for their share price.

I think from the RWE quote, they're concerned less about the principle and more about the government's competence in executing it.

[joglynne]

I feel like I'm watching a far fetched hilarious episode of Yes Minister, if only we could wake up tomorrow and find we have a competent Government in charge rather than the bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep Ministers we really have.

I guess Boris is the only one who is rubbing his hands together and laughing with glee. His past misdemeaners almost pale into insignificance considering what the country is facing to-day.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by joglynne

I feel like I'm watching a far fetched hilarious episode of Yes Minister, if only we could wake up tomorrow and find we have a competent Government in charge rather than the bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep Ministers we really have.

I guess Boris is the only one who is rubbing his hands together and laughing with glee. His past misdemeaners almost pale into insignificance considering what the country is facing to-day.

He delivered a $150k talking engagement in the US yesterday and has a successor who makes him look vaguely competent, so yes, all good at his end.

Originally Posted by Chris

Indeed … this is a bit of disappointing politicking from the Graun, who at any other time would be bleating about the absurdity of our energy market, designed as it is to pay all generators the price being demanded by whoever happens to be the most expensive (which as we all know is presently those fuelled by gas, by a country mile). The formula was intended to be a form of subsidy for renewable generators in their infancy but has become a means of profiteering thanks to the perverse (if not entirely unforseeeable) effects of the present gas price crisis.

The government’s measures are a sticking plaster, and they are indeed a ridiculous climbdown from leadership campaign pledges that obviously should never have been made, but they are not a windfall tax on renewable generators, and it helps nobody to suggest that they are.

For me, however, the single most dreadful line in the entire piece is the blatant hint at blackmail from SSE, which wants its hydro plants exempted. If they are not, SSE argues, then it might not be financially worth their while to switch them on at moments of peak demand, and there are then risks to the national grid and energy security. Translation: let us keep gouging the public or we might decide to sit back and watch the lights go off.

Despite my years of right-leaning politics, if I were a government minister in the room when that was put on the table, I’d have been presenting them with my plan to bring their business under emergency state control. And let it be known that that’s what I’d done, with all the amusing knock-on effects for their share price.

Sounds like a windfall tax to me…

Green power firms face windfall tax to fund lower energy bills

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...6ad4b4a8e23c52

Ministers plan to take the vast majority of revenues such generators earn above a cap for each unit of electricity generated. The level of the cap is yet to be determined. The government said the plan had “the potential to save billions of pounds for British billpayers, while allowing generators to cover their costs, plus receive an appropriate revenue”. The money raised is expected to help fund the estimated £60 billion cost of the government’s package to subsidise energy bills for households and businesses this winter.

[SnoopZ]

Well my heating is going to have to go on soon as I realised the washing hanging up in a bedroom isn't drying quick enough!

Originally Posted by Hugh

Sounds like a windfall tax to me…



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...6ad4b4a8e23c52

Yes, but that designation misses an important nuance. Going after Shell or BP would be a straight up windfall tax because they have made exceptional profits at a time the market has created unexpectedly favourable conditions for them. The renewable electricity producers on the other hand are benefiting from an entirely rigged market. The rules that brought this about weren’t intended to produce these consequences, although the outcome wasn’t entirely unforseeable.

These measures are a short term fix. Hopefully meaningful market reforms will follow once adequate planning is completed.

[Taf]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63205245

[SnoopZ]

I've been beaten, just turned the heating on low!

[Taf]

Want a part share in a wind turbine?

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/...2NrOwemO-vlJrU