Government & Post Election Discussion

[richard s]

The financial mess was created by the capitalist banks for being greedy and totally inept. If Labour had not bailed out the banks I wonder what the situation or outcome would be today? probably an even worst recession then we have had for the past decade.

[1andrew1]

Strong and stable in some people's books. Coalition of chaos in others.

Two Eurosceptic cabinet ministers were said to be on the verge of quitting and MPs were fuming that Mrs May was ready to sign up to a “backstop” plan under which the whole of the UK would stay in a “temporary” customs union, but without an end date.
Meanwhile, the DUP has threatened to pull the plug on her minority government because of Britain’s acceptance that Northern Ireland should remain part of the EU’s single market regulatory area under the backstop plan.

https://www.ft.com/content/30fbcb64-...5-24ad351828ab

[Angua]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It's hard enough to make decisions now! PR will just make it harder, as a permanent arrangement.

If you want a strong government that is able to make decisions, don't vote for proportional representation!

Odd how the most stable governments have proper PR, with economies that do not lurch from one direction to another.

PR makes politicians listen, it makes them compromise, it makes them plan for more than the next 5 years. It helps people engage with politics and it makes people feel their votes matter.

As a conservative supporter, the current system suits you down to the ground. It means a minority always gets to dictate to the majority.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Angua

Odd how the most stable governments have proper PR, with economies that do not lurch from one direction to another.

PR makes politicians listen, it makes them compromise, it makes them plan for more than the next 5 years. It helps people engage with politics and it makes people feel their votes matter.

As a conservative supporter, the current system suits you down to the ground. It means a minority always gets to dictate to the majority.

tbf its been both the main parties that have opposed PR, for their own reasons obviously.

The current system does render most peoples votes pointless, if they live in a strong Labour/Tory seat, Your vote only really counts if you're in one of the few swing seats, not great for democracy or encouraging more to vote. But it'll never change because people will do what the main parties/media barons tell them.

I like how some "Remainers" in this thread are discussing voting processes and democracy itself - but totally negating the possibility that if Brexit is not enacted, as per a real democratic process, that they think people will be jolly and carry on and vote as normal. LOL Give me a break, you're living in cloud cuckoo land!!!

You just don't get it - democracy will be dead in Britain, if and as when Brexit is not enacted.

I sure as hell will never vote again - democracy will be dead to me, all thanks to selfish dummy spitters who lost their campaign to stay in the EU in 2016 and foolishly believe we need the EU when we seriously do not.

So please, stop going on about Democracy like you care about it.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

I like how some "Remainers" in this thread are discussing voting processes and democracy itself - but totally negating the possibility that if Brexit is not enacted, as per a real democratic process, that they think people will be jolly and carry on and vote as normal. LOL Give me a break, you're living in cloud cuckoo land!!!

You just don't get it - democracy will be dead in Britain, if and as when Brexit is not enacted.

I sure as hell will never vote again - democracy will be dead to me, all thanks to selfish dummy spitters who lost their campaign to stay in the EU in 2016 and foolishly believe we need the EU when we seriously do not.

So please, stop going on about Democracy like you care about it.

The Brexit outcome will be a fudge so I suspect the stronger advocates on either side won't be happy but the world will carry on and the British voting system won't alter.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The Brexit outcome will be a fudge so I suspect the stronger advocates on either side won't be happy but the world will carry on and the British voting system won't alter.

The voting system in Britain will die if Brexit is not enacted, all those millions who voted for it and it won by a massive majority of over a million people and it is stopped by those trying to keep us in a corrupt union. This will kill democracy because, through the hearts and minds of the leave voters, there is no point in voting because we clearly live in a dictatorship.

You are clearly misguided if you think everything will be rosy in a scenario where Brexit is not fulfilled.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

The voting system in Britain will die if Brexit is not enacted, all those millions who voted for it and it won by a massive majority of over a million people and it is stopped by those trying to keep us in a corrupt union. This will kill democracy because, through the hearts and minds of the leave voters, there is no point in voting because we clearly live in a dictatorship.

You are clearly misguided if you think everything will be rosy in a scenario where Brexit is not fulfilled.

Brexit is really starting to sound like some sort of fundamentalist religion. Trouble is, the believers have just started look into the abyss and can't turn back ....

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

Odd how the most stable governments have proper PR, with economies that do not lurch from one direction to another.

PR makes politicians listen, it makes them compromise, it makes them plan for more than the next 5 years. It helps people engage with politics and it makes people feel their votes matter.

As a conservative supporter, the current system suits you down to the ground. It means a minority always gets to dictate to the majority.

Yes, I'm sure the Germans found the recent political negotiations to form a coalition riveting.

As for your strange view that our system benefits conservatives as you suggest, perhaps you could explain 1997-2010.

---------- Post added at 10:53 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Brexit is really starting to sound like some sort of fundamentalist religion. Trouble is, the believers have just started look into the abyss and can't turn back ....

No, it's very straight forward, actually. The people were asked - should we stay or should we go? The people said go. So we go.

I'm struggling to understand why some people find this such a difficult concept to grasp.

There is no abyss - only opportunity.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

, perhaps you could explain 1997-2010.

Please don't - it was depressing living in those times. 13 Years of hell and we're still living it, paying back all the money Labour paid out - when they bankrupted the country.

It's a vicious cycle, Labour hand out money, they cannot afford - the Tories try claw it all back through drastic Austerity.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mick

Please don't - it was depressing living in those times. 13 Years of hell and we're still living it, paying back all the money Labour paid out - when they bankrupted the country.

It's a vicious cycle, Labour hand out money, they cannot afford - the Tories try claw it all back through drastic Austerity.

Yes, and once they've balanced the books, the electorate seem to think it's safe to vote Labour again!

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

Please don't - it was depressing living in those times. 13 Years of hell and we're still living it, paying back all the money Labour paid out - when they bankrupted the country.

It's a vicious cycle, Labour hand out money, they cannot afford - the Tories try claw it all back through drastic Austerity.

Errr, the greedy 'bankers' and the worldwide economic crisis might have had some part....

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Errr, the greedy 'bankers' and the worldwide economic crisis might have had some part....

Nobody is saying otherwise. But Labour did not put money in the balances to pay towards it. That's the issue.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Nobody is saying otherwise. But Labour did not put money in the balances to pay towards it. That's the issue.

Neither did the Conservatives. That's the issue too.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Errr, the greedy 'bankers' and the worldwide economic crisis might have had some part....

Err nothing.

No, it was Labour. Fact.