Should Corporal Punishment Be Brought Back ?

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Bifta

You're probably right, the link from that article is here

http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm

Now you are going from one extreme to another. The cane at schools used to be given on the palms of hands at my school.

As school worker there are parts of the body that none of us wish to invade. If a child get injured in those areas we do ask them to go and check themselves in the toilets and only check ourselvesif the child comes back saying it is bleeding. This is only done then by the Teacher who is Health and Safety and first aider with us present. On account would a child be smacked on the buttocks in school...

If that ever happens its either another child doing in the playground which we intervine and report the incident or its parents at home. I have never needed to smack in these areas infact I have only needed to smack my son once on his leg for kicking repeatedly at his sister while she was on the floor. I was worried he was becoming ADHD and asked for him to be checked. The one slap stopped him kicking her and seemed to change his behavior the results was he didn't have the disorder. So on slap sorted teh problem that could have been dangerous if left.

Each child is different and some are a lot worse than others some have been beaten and no matter how much they was caned they wouldn't responed others have been shouteed at so much by their parents they do not responed to being shouted at. Special treats do not always work as some feel its being paid to improve and don't want to change it makes them feel big to have the lessons in the class disrupted making others in their class miss important information.

The latest punishment in schools I do disagree with as it punishes those who have done nothing wrong. The whole class misses playtime and school trips for a few children who don't care. I really do feel sad for the good ones and can see there point of view why should they be good when they are going to get punished for the few that miss behave.

I know there will always be those for and those against just as there will be those who work in schools and see the unfair treatment used to try and get these children to behave and conform to rules.

I've been waiting for someone to suggest putting all the disruptive students in one class.Been there,done that.If they ever do that again I'm leaving.

It's hell on whoever has to take them and for cover teachers.It always seemed that on the days staff had the 'sin bin' classes they would be errrr....ill and so some poor supply teacher(me) would have to take them.Bluddy horrendous.
Putting all the school malcontents,hardmen,tarty girls,thieves,madmen and vandals in one room was a crazy idea.


Incog.

Originally Posted by Kitty

The latest punishment in schools I do disagree with as it punishes those who have done nothing wrong. The whole class misses playtime and school trips for a few children who don't care.

That is just plain wrong, wrong, wrong. Who ever dreamed that up should be punished themselves.

If that ever happened to my kids at school then I would create hell.

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by pem

That is just plain wrong, wrong, wrong. Who ever dreamed that up should be punished themselves.

If that ever happened to my kids at school then I would create hell.

I agree - that is the kind of thing that creates bullying...

The kids will turn on the one that did it and pick on him !

[Florence]

Originally Posted by pem

That is just plain wrong, wrong, wrong. Who ever dreamed that up should be punished themselves.

If that ever happened to my kids at school then I would create hell.

This has been happening in schools for more than a year now. I did complain when my two came home saying it was no use being good in school as they will only get punished with the naughty ones. the headteacher said they were trying the governments method of peer pressure to make these children conform. It would never work as the ones they were trying to conform are the very children who enjoy watching others suffering for nothing....

[ian@huth]

Being one of the older members here I was brought up in a very different world to children of today. My father died when I was three years old so I only had my mother and this probably affected my behaviour until school age and corporal punishment was never needed. Once at junior school you started to learn from other children and often copied them so that you were in the "in" crowd and not a "loner". At my junior school the only person allowed to give corporal punishment was the headmaster and I had the cane from him on a couple of occasions (totally justified) and learnt from that experience. If I got the cane I was in even more trouble when I got home and my stepfather found out. Off would come his belt and I would get another dose of punishment.

At Grammar school only the head and deputy head could give the cane but all teachers could give you the slipper. I had my fair share of both but I did learn from my mistakes..

Children in my day did learn from being punished in this way at school and there were far fewer problems with children out of school than you get today. The local "bobby" was a big influence on children giving them a little clip round the ears if he caught them misbehaving and if he considered it really bad behaviour he would then march you home and you would get another dose from your parents.

Today, children know what they can get away with and exploit this to the limit. There are areas in the neighbourhood that I grew up in that were never a problem when I was a child but are very problematic now. Gangs of youths congregate at various spots and you walk near them at your peril. Some people never go out in the evening for fear of the gangs that congregate.

Spanking or the cane never did me any lasting harm and I am sure that it was beneficial to me. My two daughters got the occasional clip and they both say that it has made them a better person.

In my opinion, corporal punishment is a valid tool in bringing up children but it must be used in the correct circumstances and never in anger.

[paulyoung666]

i wonder if any of this has anything to do with the police not being able to give ' clips round the ear ' for minor misdemeanors , i for one know if a bobbie saw me do summat wrong i would be in for a damned sight worse time when he told me dad

[Florence]

Yes ianathuth its the never in anger some parents having the children around them has them angry. They bounce of each other and cause angry scenes. The children also respond in anger at an age they don't know how or understand the feelings they are displying. That is why they have no knowledge on how to control their angry feeling but do things in anger and sometimes they do feel sorry afterwards some children for whatever reasons never feel sorry at all.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

i wonder if any of this has anything to do with the police not being able to give ' clips round the ear ' for minor misdemeanors , i for one know if a bobbie saw me do summat wrong i would be in for a damned sight worse time when he told me dad

I am sure that this is the case. When I was a child the people who would dole out punishment would in the main be your parents and older relatives, teachers and the local "bobby". You might get the occasional clip round the ear from others that caught you misbehaving such as neighbours who caught you nicking apples from their tree. You learnt who you had to respect and what behaviour was right or wrong.

Back in "the good old days" though the local police were either on foot or on their bikes, rarely ever in a police car and tended to know most people in their beat area. Nowadays they are nearly always in a police car except in town centres.

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I've been waiting for someone to suggest putting all the disruptive students in one class.Been there,done that.If they ever do that again I'm leaving.

It's hell on whoever has to take them and for cover teachers.It always seemed that on the days staff had the 'sin bin' classes they would be errrr....ill and so some poor supply teacher(me) would have to take them.Bluddy horrendous.
Putting all the school malcontents,hardmen,tarty girls,thieves,madmen and vandals in one room was a crazy idea.


Incog.

But don't you generally get that by default? Surely most of these types are the ones that have the worst grades so, after class streaming, they'd all end up at the bottom of the pile together anyway.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Flubflow

But don't you generally get that by default? Surely most of these types are the ones that have the worst grades so, after class streaming, they'd all end up at the bottom of the pile together anyway.

Class streaming? ROTFPMSL Thats not allowed these days, it's not PC. Everyone is 'included' now, no matter the effect on the other kids

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Class streaming? ROTFPMSL Thats not allowed these days, it's not PC. Everyone is 'included' now, no matter the effect on the other kids

Its the teachers I feel sorry for !!! A was walking past a local school the other week and the kids were coming out and getting onto the bus. They were all screaming and shouting. There was a female teacher telling them to calm down and not push - She was completely ignored.

When I was at school if the teacher said something we would all stop and listen !!!

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Class streaming? ROTFPMSL Thats not allowed these days, it's not PC. Everyone is 'included' now, no matter the effect on the other kids

So why did my nephew come to me the other week and say, "I've been moved up into the top group in maths" ?

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Class streaming? ROTFPMSL Thats not allowed these days, it's not PC. Everyone is 'included' now, no matter the effect on the other kids

Not in high schools they do stream the classes in to top middle and bottom groups they also have special needs groups that are taught in a part of the school away from the others. Some high schools also have the refferal unit where the disruptive ones from any group gets sent for punishment, these children are not allowed to mix with the rest of the school.

School isn't ideal and the latest timed everything isn't helping those who can be a little slow to pick up and retain information. Todays school is all timed 10 mins talk 10 mins reading or explaining and 20 mins writing. Most children don't pay atention when they are on the carpet time ( 20 mins ) so then they are asking what they are supposed to do. When we was at school you wasn't made to sit around on the floor listening for 20 mins then go back to your desk to work. You was't allowed to sit in groups where others could distract you. Todays educations has loads of areas where a disruptive child can mess around in the old method tables all in a row facing the teacher was 100% better. IMPO anyway The full hour working in your books after a few mins introduction then the teacher helping those who still don't understand is better than all sitting for 20 mins and the teacher trying to re-explain to the others in hte 20 mins they should be writing. hence not a lot of writing is going on by some.

Originally Posted by Flubflow

But don't you generally get that by default? Surely most of these types are the ones that have the worst grades so, after class streaming, they'd all end up at the bottom of the pile together anyway.

No not always.Some students just have problems in certain subjects like languages(seems crazy to me teaching a child who is barely literate in english another language)or maths and can cope elsewhere.Also I'm not talking about poorer ability students,I'm talking about disruptive ones.Not every disruptive child is the traditional two planks variety.Some are very bright.I believe I pointed out that the superbright(genius) children will be eventually included under the Special Needs umberella.These children have the greatest ability to be disruptive because they apply intelligence and logic to their methods of misbehaviour-a very dangerous element.

No,sin bins just don't work.