Merged: London Broadband.

[orangebird]

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
That is the problem with NTL, they give you a number of stories. So why have a go at Bomber? OB is willing to say anything in order to put NTL in a good light!

Ahhh, UDT - wondered where you were. Missed your witty reasoned responses & overwhelming charm.

[Tristan]

Originally posted by Bluetack
So areas of London haven't got broadband. Big bloody deal. Discussing this is Ok because we're on a discussion forum but instead of the same people saying the same things and everything going round and round in circles, why doesn't one of you get off your fat arse and do something like contact the mods here and get them to write to ntl for an official response. If ntl don't respond then this site can let everyone know that.

You are really going to regret writing that...

[Mark W]

Originally posted by Bluetack
So areas of London haven't got broadband. Big bloody deal. Discussing this is Ok because we're on a discussion forum but instead of the same people saying the same things and everything going round and round in circles, why doesn't one of you get off your fat arse and do something like contact the mods here and get them to write to ntl for an official response. If ntl don't respond then this site can let everyone know that.

*dons flak jacket and finds nearest bunker to hide in.....*

[BubbleGum]

Originally posted by Tristan
You are really going to regret writing that...

You threatening me punk :p

All I'm saying is you can discuss this subject to death but it would be far more constructive to do something, than just sit around like a bunch of old whingers. Nominate someone to contact the mods and let them try and get an official response on behalf of this site and the members interested in London broadband

[Undisputedtruth]

Originally posted by orangebird
Yeah, great - makes good sense that.....screw ntl for more discounts so they can earn even less money to be able to invest in making london bb & interactive able...... foot/shoot etc.....and even if ntl do manage to enable the area, if you're already happy with other provider services plus a freebie/discounted line, you won't want to change to ntl anyway!!!!!!

It will cost NTL a lot of money in marketing to attract lost customers. I think it makes good business sense to retain your customer base rather than adopting a blind dogmatic attitude like OB. Perhaps, when their staff can act more professional and become more reasonable then NTL can then charge a fair price for its products. At the moment we are paying too much for a substandard product.

Undisputedtruth

[BubbleGum]

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Perhaps, when their staff can act more professional and become more reasonable

I agree to some extent but as a customer, how professionally and reasonably are you handling the London broadband issues ?. Not very at all - why don't you since you've got the biggest mouth but I've never seen you achieve anything just heard hot air about how you're moving to BT but never do, be the one to contact the mods on this site

[hawkmoon]

Originally posted by orangebird
ntl haven't been actibely lying - they thought that they could really deliver something, but overestimated themselves - two entirely different things.

Oh, and just fyi - ntl never had 'more money than they knew what to do with' - they just borrowed lots.....

So what do you call constant promises by a company that BB is "coming soon" or "in the next 6 months" for 2 years or more when they knew very well that the infrastructure was not capable of delivering that promise.

A company that has been in trouble with the ASA for advertising said services in areas that they were not capable of supplying - these were in the form of large roadside billboard adverts, offering BB for £24.99p m and were put up all around the NW London ex-videotron areas.

That can hardly be classed as over-estimating themselves!

NTL have consistantly strung their customers in the ex-videotron regions along with promise after promise. They have advertised said services, their postcode checker informed over a year ago that BB was coming soon (still no sign of it), when sales and CS were asked they responded with "in the next 6 months" or "I can promise you that it is very soon now - looking at your postcode".

None of these can be classed as over-estimations. They are to all purposes deliberate attempts to mislead their customer base.

I really can't see why you are so eager to defend this company!

Originally posted by Bluetack
So areas of London haven't got broadband. Big bloody deal. Discussing this is Ok because we're on a discussion forum but instead of the same people saying the same things and everything going round and round in circles, why doesn't one of you get off your fat arse and do something like contact the mods here and get them to write to ntl for an official response. If ntl don't respond then this site can let everyone know that.

With all respect that was actually tried on NTHW IIRC. The mods there attempted at times to try and get further information. IIRC Craig (not sure which mod it was) was supposed to bring the matter up during a meeting with NTL. Anyone else remember this?

Originally posted by Bluetack
I agree to some extent but as a customer, how professionally and reasonably are you handling the London broadband issues ?. Not very at all - why don't you since you've got the biggest mouth but I've never seen you achieve anything just heard hot air about how you're moving to BT but never do, be the one to contact the mods on this site

I presume you never followed the numerous threads on NTHW?

If you had you would have seen that many people have tried to contact NTL on this matter and have either got the standard corporate reply of "we are committed to upgrading the networs" type of thing or have simply been ignored.

If it will help then said mods of this site please contact NTL and see if you can get a proper responce - rather than the usual one mentioned in several replies already in this thread.

[BubbleGum]

Originally posted by hawkmoon
I presume you never followed the numerous threads on NTHW?

If you had you would have seen that many people have tried to contact NTL on this matter and have either got the standard corporate reply of "we are committed to upgrading the networs" type of thing or have simply been ignored.

If it will help then said mods of this site please contact NTL and see if you can get a proper responce - rather than the usual one mentioned in several replies already in this thread.

I've read some of the threads there but the difference is that ntl own their arses over there. If ntl tell a mod on .com something lame then the mod is probably told to STFU about it - here that can't happen because unless I've missed something ntl are not involved here and can't control the content. Give the mods here a chance and lets see what happens

[orangebird]

Originally posted by hawkmoon
So what do you call constant promises by a company that BB is "coming soon" or "in the next 6 months" for 2 years or more when they knew very well that the infrastructure was not capable of delivering that promise.

A company that has been in trouble with the ASA for advertising said services in areas that they were not capable of supplying - these were in the form of large roadside billboard adverts, offering BB for £24.99p m and were put up all around the NW London ex-videotron areas.

That can hardly be classed as over-estimating themselves!

I think it can. What is it you think ntl had to gain by failing to deliver promises?

NTL have consistantly strung their customers in the ex-videotron regions along with promise after promise. They have advertised said services, their postcode checker informed over a year ago that BB was coming soon (still no sign of it), when sales and CS were asked they responded with "in the next 6 months" or "I can promise you that it is very soon now - looking at your postcode".

None of these can be classed as over-estimations. They are to all purposes deliberate attempts to mislead their customer base.

I really can't see why you are so eager to defend this company!

Again - what reasons do you have in mind for ntl wanting to 'string you along'? You think it was just for kicks or something??

I'm not defending them, but I do believe that when ntl first starting promising services, they truly thought they could deliver. They haven't been able to and I know it's frustrating (I can't get either ntl bb or adsl where I live), but it beggars belief that anyone thinks ntl were doing it deliberately to cheese potential customers off

[Stuart]

Originally posted by orangebird
I think it can. What is it you think ntl had to gain by failing to deliver promises?



Again - what reasons do you have in mind for ntl wanting to 'string you along'? You think it was just for kicks or something??

I'm not defending them, but I do believe that when ntl first starting promising services, they truly thought they could deliver. They haven't been able to and I know it's frustrating (I can't get either ntl bb or adsl where I live), but it beggars belief that anyone thinks ntl were doing it deliberately to cheese potential customers off

I have to agree with OB here. Although NTL have been done by the ASA for advertising services they are not capable of providing (and to be honest, I think NTL should have worked out where they can provide BB before they planned the advertisement campaign), they have nothing to gain by not providing this service.

In fact, they are losing at least £18 a month for each interested subscriber. That could be a lot of money. NTL know this, so I don't see what they gain by "stringing people along". It's almost like the "conspiracy theory" that went around a while back on .com.

[bigitup_j]

Originally posted by rippedoff
The latest reply from ntl:

Dear Mr *********

Thanks for your mail
Our broadband service is not available in your area at the moment. We continue to invest in upgrading our network to deliver the highest quality service and are committed to providing it to you as soon as possible.
This, as you can imagine, takes time and therefore it may be a number of months before we can confirm availability of the service in your area.
Our website is regularly updated with new services and availability. Here is a link to the site you need

http://www.ntl.com/locales/gb/en/hom...ailability.asp

Regards,

Amanda Gilbert
Customer Liaison Co-ordinator
Customer Liaison Department
without prejudice
LondonCustomerManagement@cwcom.co.uk


That says a lot doesn't it? It's a variation on the 'coming soon' theme!

the link is pretty useless. as i put in a postcode which does not have broadband (i know, my friend lives there and is quite annoyed) and it said bb was available! but it isn't

stupid ntl!

[Undisputedtruth]

Originally posted by Bluetack
I agree to some extent but as a customer, how professionally and reasonably are you handling the London broadband issues ?. Not very at all - why don't you since you've got the biggest mouth but I've never seen you achieve anything just heard hot air about how you're moving to BT but never do, be the one to contact the mods on this site

I've an order placed with a adsl provider and also I have a BT line since the beginning of June. I must admit I'm not professional in my own behaviour in handling the London broadband issue. Am I oblige to be professional? I've always been reasonable. Unfortunately, I have nothing but contempt for NTL which has showed in my postings. Please don't confuse contempt with reasonable behaviour.

I think I achieve alot by asking loads of awkward questions, highlighting contradictory information and raise the profile of broadband in London. People like Hawkmoon, Rippedoff, and others have made immense contributions. I have not seen any useful contributions from Bluetack, perhaps he could be kind enough to tell us his contribution.

[binary]

Originally posted by bigitup_j (post #115)
ntl are probably working on the 'easy' bits of the london network, the bits that need minimal money spent on. then they will move on to more expensive and involved parts of london.
well that's my theory, and seems quite probable.

I agree completely. It'd just be good to know where the good bits (which are more lilely to have broadband soon) and where the bad bits of the network actually are.

Originally posted by Bluetack (post #142)
You threatening me punk :p

All I'm saying is you can discuss this subject to death but it would be far more constructive to do something, than just sit around like a bunch of old whingers. Nominate someone to contact the mods and let them try and get an official response on behalf of this site and the members interested in London broadband

Many have contacted NTL for an official response. They just get the same old corporate reply of the style rippedoff (and many others) have received, as hawkmoon pointed out in post #145. rippedoff has copied his email from NTL in post #131.

What I would like is an unofficial reply from an NTL insider about the state of the London network. Such information will be far more valuable & informative than any official response. Ideally I'd like to be able to PM my postcode to someone in NTL so they can tell me about what the network is like in my neighbourhood.

The reason I'm participating in this thread is in the hope that an NTL insider might be pursuaded to do just that.

Originally posted by orangebird (post #147), replying to points made by hawkmoon in post #145
Again - what reasons do you have in mind for ntl wanting to 'string you along'? You think it was just for kicks or something??

As I've said before of course there's no conspiracy to deny London broadband.

However NTL does wish to retain customers (such as myself) who, if they'd known how long it would take to get broadband, would not have stayed with NTL. I moved address locally, and transfered my NTL service to the new address. If I had know that x years later NTL still couldn't offer me broadband, then I'd have chosen BT/ADSL/Sky to be installed in my new abode.

I will wait another 6 months, then (unless I have any credible information that broadband is really coming) I'll get ADSL with a BT line. At the end of the day that option is open to nearly everyone in London.

[hawkmoon]

Originally posted by orangebird
I think it can. What is it you think ntl had to gain by failing to deliver promises?



Again - what reasons do you have in mind for ntl wanting to 'string you along'? You think it was just for kicks or something??

I'm not defending them, but I do believe that when ntl first starting promising services, they truly thought they could deliver. They haven't been able to and I know it's frustrating (I can't get either ntl bb or adsl where I live), but it beggars belief that anyone thinks ntl were doing it deliberately to cheese potential customers off

]

Maybe when they first started promising, but their promises went on for 2 years! They were still promising that BB was coming soon whilst they were undergoing debt restructuring!

There is no way that this is going to be passed off as over-estimation. You really expect people to accept that NTL thought they could re-cable the mjority of the ex-Videotron areas within 6 months. Remember this is not just a single occurance but continuously happened over 2 or more years!

Also NTL have had there hands slapped by the ASA several times for making misleading statements in adverts for services that were not actually available. They once even told the ASA that they could provide evidence that 70% of the franchise's where these services were advertised could receive said services, they failed to deliver this evidence to the ASA.

Whilst the London MD was telling myself and my MP that NTL was confident that they could launch BB and interactive later in the year, the London Customer Management team in customer liasions were telling over people that NTL had no plans to upgrade the networks to provide these services.

Make your own conclussions - lies or incompetance yes, over-estimation, no way!

[hawkmoon]

Originally posted by bigitup_j
the link is pretty useless. as i put in a postcode which does not have broadband (i know, my friend lives there and is quite annoyed) and it said bb was available! but it isn't

stupid ntl!

Yup, same here. That link is saying that "BB is coming soon" for my postcode in Harrow.

It has been saying this for almost a year now - despite the fact that someone else in Harrow has got a reply from NTL saying that NTL have done tests and have no plans to launch BB in Harrow.