Torys to cut housing benefit of young

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

...

Even the Thatcher administration had built in safeguards for those estranged from their parent/s when they legislated to prevent 16 and 17 year olds from claiming benefits by reason of unemployment.

Exactly my earlier point. Where does it say that any current safeguards are being removed?

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Your attitude towards suicide is appalling. In fact, you are so ignorant of the subject that you are actually asking for assistance to point out where you said anything wrong.

This lady and her children can better explain why your 'they would have done it anyway even if their benefits hadn't been stopped, so it doesn't really matter' attitude is so offensive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05n2922

.

and yet you still fail to point out where I have been crass and flippant so one must assume your just making stuff up again like this statement for example
"The information that I provided is not in the public domain- campaigners hope to change this. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that EVERYTHING is on the internet- it isn't"
It's seems handy to be able spout rubbish like this
" Incidentally, it has been leaked that the DWP are believed to have done their own investigations and found that approx 500 people have died/committed suicide as a result of their policies and ways of working."

and not have to back it up because it is privileged information that only you have access to

What if somebody reaches adulthood after being systematically sexually abused by a parent and is unable to secure reasonably well paid employment? Do you think that it is appropriate for them to be expected stay at home for some years?

As has been explained before and you agreed the point ,there must be a line drawn ,where would you draw it ? who would you stop helping given a limited budget ?

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Exactly my earlier point. Where does it say that any current safeguards are being removed?

It doesn't. The safeguards for vulnerable people that I referred to related to Supplementary Benefit/Income Support/JSA.

No safeguards for said client groups have been mooted at all for this proposal to bar young people from claiming Housing Benefit- that's my concern.

Originally Posted by martyh

and yet you still fail to point out where I have been crass and flippant so one must assume your just making stuff up again like this statement for example
"The information that I provided is not in the public domain- campaigners hope to change this. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that EVERYTHING is on the internet- it isn't"
It's seems handy to be able spout rubbish like this
" Incidentally, it has been leaked that the DWP are believed to have done their own investigations and found that approx 500 people have died/committed suicide as a result of their policies and ways of working."

and not have to back it up because it is privileged information that only you have access to

As has been explained before and you agreed the point ,there must be a line drawn ,where would you draw it ? who would you stop helping given a limited budget ?

If you don't yet understand how offensive your remarks/attitude about depressed and suicidal people are; there is little hope.

Let's take Hugh's post as an example. Hugh actually disagreed about the numbers of people that have lost their lives due to the changes to the welfare state; however he started his post with a recognition that however many people had died, it was a terrible state of affairs.

Therein lies the difference, you clearly have no empathy or decency towards those affected by this issue. Do a quick search of your own posts if you require affirmation of this.

I do think that in some ways that the benefits system needs reform and that it is costing too much. I don't think that this is the way forward though, alternatives were presented to the Government during the period of consultation by myself and others.

I am not able or willing to disclose further details about the legal action that various organisations may take against the DWP as this could prejudice the outcome. If in your mind this equates to "making stuff up", then so be it.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

It doesn't. The safeguards for vulnerable people that I referred to related to Supplementary Benefit/Income Support/JSA.

No safeguards for said client groups have been mooted at all for this proposal to bar young people from claiming Housing Benefit- that's my concern.



If you don't yet understand how offensive your remarks/attitude about depressed and suicidal people are; there is little hope.

Let's take Hugh's post as an example. Hugh actually disagreed about the numbers of people that have lost their lives due to the changes to the welfare state; however he started his post with a recognition that however many people had died, it was a terrible state of affairs.

Therein lies the difference, you clearly have no empathy or decency towards those affected by this issue. Do a quick search of your own posts if you require affirmation of this.

I do think that in some ways that the benefits system needs reform and that it is costing too much. I don't think that this is the way forward though, alternatives were presented to the Government during the period of consultation by myself and others.

I am not able or willing to disclose further details about the legal action that various organisations may take against the DWP as this could prejudice the outcome. If in your mind this equates to "making stuff up", then so be it.

your full of crap ,I said nothing offensive at all ,proven by your inability to highlight the offensive remarks

---------- Post added at 17:42 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I am not able or willing to disclose further details about the legal action that various organisations may take against the DWP as this could prejudice the outcome. If in your mind this equates to "making stuff up", then so be it.

what a load of rubbish I think your some sort of Walter Mitty type character

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by martyh

your full of crap ,I said nothing offensive at all ,proven by your inability to highlight the offensive remarks

---------- Post added at 17:42 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------



what a load of rubbish I think your some sort of Walter Mitty type character

I refer you to my second paragraph of post 122. What a shame it will probably have to take personal experience of suicide to alter your attitude.

The things that you come out with and the juvenile way that you express yourself tells me so much. I had rather hoped to have an adult debate about the proposed changes to the welfare state.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I refer you to my second paragraph of post 122. What a shame it will probably have to take personal experience of suicide to alter your attitude.

The things that you come out with and the juvenile way that you express yourself tells me so much. I had rather hoped to have an adult debate about the proposed changes to the welfare state.

Instead of babbling like an idiot quote the lines that you find so offensive and give me a chance to defend my remarks ,this is the last time I'm going to ask ,if you don't then I will know that you are just being a prat

[MovedGoalPosts]

Please cut out the petty jibes and insults towards each other. Debate the post subject matter, not the person posting it.

[RichardCoulter]

An update to the current position with regards to the benefit cuts to come from the present Government.

Pensioners, who take up the vast majority of the benefits bill, are to be fully protected, so it looks like working age claimants will have to bear the cuts of 12 billion pounds that they intend to make from the welfare budget.

The Tories are refusing to say where they will make the cuts until after the election, so, from what we know so far of their plans it is likely that:

- 300 million could be saved from restricting Child Benefit to the first three children.

- 50 million by ceasing Housing Benefit for the under 25's.

- 2 billion by freezing the uprating of most working age benefits (including ESA for the sick and disabled).

That leaves a shortfall of nearly 10 billion pounds to be made from the 5 million working age claimants.

Ideas being floated are;

- Abolishing the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG) of ESA.

- Making the disability benefits DLA and PIP taxable.

- Abolishing the lower rate care and mobility components of DLA.

- A reduction in the benefits cap.

- Reducing the % of rent that Housing Benefit covers.

- Make the benefit that is gradually replacing DLA (PIP) much harder to get.

Ideas that have been mooted in the past:

- Introduce a liable relative rule. This means that before being allowed to claim benefits, the most appropriate relative must show that they are not able to help the person requiring assistance.

- Clawing back help with housing costs for those with mortgages from any proceeds from the sale of the house or death (whichever happens first).

- If the WRAG is retained as part of ESA, reduce the amount to JSA plus 50p.

And finally, they could further reduce Tax Credits. The problem with this is that Tax Credits aren't part of the welfare budget- so the Chancellor leaves himself open to charges of misleading the public if he goes down this route.

Re: The growing number of suicides by those on benefits.

The influential house of commons work and pensions committee has called for "a body modelled on the Independent Police Complaints Commission" to look into the rising number of deaths to working age claimants.

They also noted concern about whether benefit sanctions were being applied "appropriately, fairly and proportionally".

http://www.parliament.uk/business/co...ctions-report/

[nomadking]

There have long been slightly different rules for pensioners, so nothing new.

[richard s]

If the unfortunate happens and the pensioner has to go into a care home than they will have to use their pension or sell their house to pay for their care.

Surprising that £16bn is never claimed in this country and yet the poor are still crapped on.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by richard s

If the unfortunate happens and the pensioner has to go into a care home than they will have to use their pension or sell their house to pay for their care.

Surprising that £16bn is never claimed in this country and yet the poor are still crapped on.

If they go into a care home then the house is a 2nd Home. Why shouldn't be treated as an asset.

[richard s]

Not to say they have probably payed NI and Tax all their lives. They have probably worked friging hard to own their home and it is something to leave to their children.

Please note £16bn is never claimed.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by nomadking

There have long been slightly different rules for pensioners, so nothing new.

It is correct that pensioners have been protected from the cuts thus far. However, It is necessary to reiterate this to put into context as to why much of the new cuts will fall on working age people.

These additional cuts are due from 2016/17 after the agreed spending round ends.

The current cuts are still filtering through with 1/3 of disabled people losing their mobility car.

Meanwhile, Tory ministers think it appropriate to 'joke' about what they are doing. Tory minister Hugo Swire was secretly taped by Channel 4 at the £1,500 per place 'Black and White Ball' that was held to raise money for the Conservatives.

He was taped saying that "those on benefits could afford to bid £55,000" for lots including a bust of Thatcher, a weekends pheasant shooting and a shoe shopping trip with Theresa May.

In a reference to Bentleys, Rolls Royces and Ferraris he also went on to say that "in the good old days of MP's expenses we could have them too. But we don't any more".

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

It is correct that pensioners have been protected from the cuts thus far. However, It is necessary to reiterate this to put into context as to why much of the new cuts will fall on working age people.

These additional cuts are due from 2016/17 to 2017/18 after the agreed spending round ends.

The current cuts are still filtering through with 1/3 of disabled people losing their mobility car.

Meanwhile, Tory ministers think it appropriate to 'joke' about what they are doing.

How many people NEED the mobility car. Times have moved on. Transport by taxis or buses is now easier. That's what the rest of us have to do.

[richard s]

I think you spelt his name wrong, I thought it was Hugo Swine...