All F1 2005 Discussions - Page 10

Raistlin · 20-06-2005, 01:01

IMHO the problem here is Michelin.

There's no way that an extra chicane should have been introduced, just to allow the Michelin runners to participate.

Michelin knew what the rules were regarding changes of tyres, they knew what the conditions on the track were like, if they had done their homework properly they would have come to the track with a tyre that was capable of doing what it was supposed to do.

At the end of the day they are to blame for the farsical situation that unfolded today, not the teams, not the drivers, and not the FIA.

SMHarman · 20-06-2005, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian@huth

I ccouldn't believe it when they were talking about refunds and I heard what it cost to get into the US Grand Prix, $85. Wish that was all we had to pay over here.

But it is the only one in the country - imagine as a F1 fan you have flown from say LA to FLA to watch it and then get this. $$$ in airfare and hotels as well as the $85 for a ticket.
Most Europeans go to their country race, a far shorter distance.

I assume the other reason the M teams did not race was driver insurance, car not safe as tyres not save = no driver insurance = hideous cost if driver dies as result of tyre burst.

Graham · 20-06-2005, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raistlin

Michelin knew what the rules were regarding changes of tyres, they knew what the conditions on the track were like, if they had done their homework properly they would have come to the track with a tyre that was capable of doing what it was supposed to do.

The thing is, though, they didn't know what the conditions were like with the current incarnation of F1 cars, nor had they had experience with banked tracks which is what caused the stress problems with the tyres.

Bridgestone OTOH had a major advantage because their sister company, Firestone, supplies tyres to all the Indy cars etc, so they would know much more about how the banking affects tyre stresses.

iadom · 20-06-2005, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin_plumber

Fact is that Ferrari didn't disagree to the introduction of the chicane

They were the only team who said they would still race even if the chicane
was not in place

Then Jordan backed down and Minardi felt they had to also

At no time were the FIA gonna put in a chicane.
The teams had their option, change tyres and suffer a penalty.
At the end of the day this aint Ferrari's fault and it aint the Michelin teams fault.
It is the fault of Michelin themselves

It appears that a lot of people think that Ferrari's intransigence did not help.
The Michelin teams even offered to allow all the Bridgestone runners to start at the front of the grid and Ferrari alone refused.

FI Shame

Quote.
'Sadly Ferrari and the sport's governing body, the FIA, did not see it that way, refusing to acquiesce'

andygrif · 20-06-2005, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookie_365

You blame Ferrari for the other teams turning up without adequate equipment?

Ferrari turned up with a set of tyres that worked, and beat everyone who wanted to race against them. If the Michelin teams chose not to race, that's their decision, their responsibility, and no one elses. Not Ferraris, not Bernie Ecclestone's: theirs.

I think Ferrari are guilty of not understanding what the game is about...the clue is in the word motorsport. They behaved, although within the rules, in a most unsportsmanlike manner, and I was unhappy at Jordan making a last minute change of mind to take part...presumably under some sort the veiled threat from the FIA. As Minardi are so close to Jordan in the rankings, they had little choice but to compete too.

Personally I think this situation has the potential to rock F1 to the core, perhaps terminally. Hopefully an awful lot of mediation will be taking place right now to prevent that.

I picked up this post from a professional photographer who attends motorsport meetings...interesting reading, especially the bit about Bridgestone being tipped off about the dreadful diamondcut track surface:

Quote:

An alternate design of the tire was sent to Indianapolis from France overnight and was tested. Unfortunately, this alternate tire would last longer, but would not last long enough. There was no time to redesign a tire structure, manufacture it, and have it shipped from France to the USA overnight and therefore a request was send to Mosley and Co (FIA) to attempt to mend the situation with a chicane that would be placed in the straight. This would slow the cars down and would reduce structural load on the joint of the belt and sidewall. The host(Indy), nine of ten teams, excluding Ferrari (as usual), agreed to this proposal. Max Mosley decided that there would be no compromise. The F1 drivers were told to park their cars by team officials, many drivers were very upset about this. If you don't know, the decision to drive isn't really up to the drivers. Due to obvious and very serious safety reasons, all Michelin runners were recommended by Michelin to not participate due to a faulty product. Minardi and Jordan/Midland F1 had also agreed not to run with the Michelin runners in their support. At the last minute, Jordan/Midland F1 decided to go against their earlier promise and compete in the race. Due to the position of Jordan and Minardi, Stoddart was forced to also go against his promise, there is no way they could let Jordan/Midland get away with that many point and Minardi with none.

This is not the first time there has been a tire issue at Indy after the resurfacing, both Nascar and IRL were forced to make drastic changes to their tires after experiencing damage and unusual wear of the tires. Firestone was able to convey this information to sister Bridgestone where a new tire was developed for this track specifically. Unfortunately, Michelin was kept out of the circle of information.

Pierre · 20-06-2005, 11:04

You can't blame individuals.

The problem is with everyone in the sport. The Teams, The FIA.

Fair enough if there is a safety issue is has to be adressed, but if it couldn't be resolved in time before the race couldn'e they at least have put the chicane in and call it a non-championship race and least give the crowd a race to watch.

Just who do these people think they are, people paid hundreds of dollars and travelled hundreds of miles for this, and this is how they are treated.

I would be furious and the crowd should get their money back and the FIA and teams should pay for it.

The FIA and Teams are so full of their own importance and tied up in the politics of it all that they have lost sight of just what is important. The fans. We just want to watch a race.

ian@huth · 20-06-2005, 11:09

Jordan and Minarda seem to be blaming each other for breaking the agreement not to race. In the end it was money that decided the issue. The points they gained from the race guaranteed them a few million more in travel money for next season.

j52c · 20-06-2005, 11:11

Hi.

http://www.planet-f1.com/features/ra...ry_19992.shtml

Look at the section about Bridgestone having the wrong tyres in 2003.

What happened on Sunday was down to Bernie Ecclestone and friends. He has been talking about a 1 tyre supplier for the last couple of months, and Michelins mistake dropped into his lap along with the help of Ferrari.
Yes Michelin were at fault, but the race could have been run but the same thing happened as has happened before, 9 teams agree and one doesn't.

More damage has been done to F1 by running 6 cars than if the race had been declared void, let us not forget the free points that Ferrari got, sort of changes the whole championship now, maybe a sweetener for MS, especially as there has been talk about him quitting this year, what a nice Fathers day present from Bernie.

We have not heard the last of this and it brings the rival breakaway teams ever nearer, the F1A have only themselves to blame.

Paul K · 20-06-2005, 11:13

Let's face it, money was one of the main reasons that people wouldn't back down or agree to the chicane. How much extra camera time did each car (and therefor the cars sponsors) get due to only 6 cars running? Several ideas were put forward by the teams, chicane, driving for no points if you changed tyres, starting from the rear of the grid etc. All of which could have resolved the problem. One team vetoed the ideas (if what has been said is correct) and that team should be ashamed of themselves doing so.

sherer · 20-06-2005, 13:59

from reading all the comments from the teams, FIA, Michelin etc each one is saying in a rather childish and petty manner "It's your fault". That uis the problem everyone wanted to blame someone else rather than saying this is a problem how can we solve it.

If the teams can't look beyond their own self interests i.e Ferrari voting no to the chicane, then the FIA should step in and do this for them.. if all the teams just think of themselves then none of the races will take place

SMHarman · 20-06-2005, 14:02

I read / heard that Ferrari were not against the chicane, nor for, just silent.

punky · 20-06-2005, 14:05

The issue seems to be that the tyre couldn't run at high speed on that particular banked corner. Why not just brake down to a safe speed for the corner then?

Personally I think F1 in its entirety is a farce. Has been for years.

sherer · 20-06-2005, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

The issue seems to be that the tyre couldn't run at high speed on that particular banked corner. Why not just brake down to a safe speed for the corner then?

Personally I think F1 in its entirety is a farce. Has been for years.

look at what happened in Monaca when Montoya was slow in practice and the other cars around him weren't.. there was a big crash... how much should the teams slow down ?

the FIA should have found a solution.. as someone pointed out in Brasil a few years ago Bridgestone were allowed to bring another rain tyre they hadn't niminated on the grounds of safety and in 94 we had chicanes in Spain and Belgium

20-06-2005, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

The issue seems to be that the tyre couldn't run at high speed on that particular banked corner. Why not just brake down to a safe speed for the corner then?

Personally I think F1 in its entirety is a farce. Has been for years.

It wasn't considered safe to have the Bridgestone runners taking the bend at full speed, while the Michelin runners were having to slow down, also no-one was prepared to commit to what would be 'guaranteed' to be a safe speed.

I'm trying to think of something to refute your last comment - and I can't.

ian@huth · 20-06-2005, 14:17

How easy would it have been to put a new chicane in though? You can't just put a few cones there and hope the drivers don't knock them out of the way.

Drivers deliberately slowing down for the corner just wouldn't work. They are there to win and would still take the corner at full throttle. Look at Kimi in the Canadian GP when he took the risk with his tyres and wrecked the car.