*ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please

[mmm]

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

I find it very interesting that the people who know, claimed a while ago, that it wasn't the downstream that caused problems on the ntl networks, but the upstream. So, ntl have decided to cap services, and at the same time make download AND upload speeds faster, on a network that already has problems?
I've seen a few peolple state this in the past, so can anyone comment on it now? Will the higher upstreams cause problems?

It was reported somewhere that the new cards being installed to increase the download also added some extra upstream channels so their is some extra capacity available. The caps will tend to shave off the highest (ab)users so will be good for the average user.

[Ignition]

Higher upstreams unlikely to cause problems as people won't be able to leave their favourite P2P client open 24x7 uploading full or near full whack, or FTP 'Linux ISOs' to friends.
One would also hope the months of hard upgrading won't be in vain

[jtwn]

Well if anything, the caps will now turn me from a friendly seeder to a leecher on p2p

I can maintain 32kb/s to webmania.com/ntl webspace on my ul

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Ignition

Higher upstreams unlikely to cause problems as people won't be able to leave their favourite P2P client open 24x7 uploading full or near full whack, or FTP 'Linux ISOs' to friends.
One would also hope the months of hard upgrading won't be in vain

so this means the system will 'enforce' the limit by throttling or inaccessability of service ?

Originally Posted by kronas

so this means the system will 'enforce' the limit by throttling or inaccessability of service ?

I'd be surprised if he could go into any more detail, without risking the terms of his non disclosure agreement.

We can speculate that NTL will have some mechanism in place to enforce the proposed limitation of bandwidth, once the speed increases are rolled out, but exactly how that will be achieved, may never be made public.

One thought I had, regarding the upload increases, is that the upload speeds for each tier are each going to be 10% of the download speed, rather than the current 21%/17%/17% - would I be correct in assuming this 'increase' in the asynchronicity will benefit the network, as a whole?

[kronas]

Originally Posted by homealone

I'd be surprised if he could go into any more detail, without risking the terms of his non disclosure agreement.

what you dont ask you dont get.

Originally Posted by homealone

We can speculate that NTL will have some mechanism in place to enforce the proposed limitation of bandwidth, once the speed increases are rolled out, but exactly how that will be achieved, may never be made public.

i will assume so, if that is the case then i would have to consider my position of whether to upgrade or not, as i have variable usage when i have monitered in the past.

sometimes its consistantly heavy other times its idle.

Originally Posted by homealone

One thought I had, regarding the upload increases, is that the upload speeds for each tier are each going to be 10% of the download speed, rather than the current 21%/17%/17% - would I be correct in assuming this 'increase' in the asynchronicity will benefit the network, as a whole?

i would assume you could be right there, if there is room being given after the added upstreams etc to allow for usage and then a seperate 'leeway' on the network then it should work out.

mathimatically it looks that way.

im not a mathematician by a long shot so dont quote me

Originally Posted by kronas

what you dont ask you dont get.

true

i will assume so, if that is the case then i would have to consider my position of whether to upgrade or not, as i have variable usage when i have monitered in the past.

sometimes its consistantly heavy other times its idle.

the one thing I can't get my head round, is my assumption they will be running 6 tiers, rather than the current 3, time will tell I suppose

- as requested I havn't quoted you on the last point

[kronas]

Originally Posted by homealone

true

Originally Posted by homealone

the one thing I can't get my head round, is my assumption they will be running 6 tiers, rather than the current 3, time will tell I suppose

yes they will be, whether they will phase them out eventually or allow the choosing remains to be seen.

one thing i WILL be asking them if i do decide to upgrade is if i can downgrade back to 1.5mbit.

whats the bet on them not allowing that ?

Originally Posted by homealone

- as requested I havn't quoted you on the last point

[mcmanic]

cannot wait to see what happens with this supposed capping when it starts and fully inforced, loads of people complaining about reduced service or why they been charged for extra BB above the so called limit that they never knew about because they (normal joe public) don't even know what a cap is and what MBs are, lol - its going to be mayhem.

Personal think it ain't going to happen, it'll just be a guideline, with maybe more people making sure your not using a 1 meg connection for 24/7 downloading and advised to upgrade to 3meg.

as for upload, couldn't care less, never use it, and as pointed out i thought it was p2p users using their upload to share was the actual problem that cause so many issue's with ntl's network, and seeing i don't belive ntl is going to actually impose hardcaps i think if by offering more upload speed they will just make the network even worse, and everyone will then blame people who download alot .

personally they should port block popular p2p

[Thorny]

i do think the 256k to 300k upload change is a bit pointless. It would of been nice to see it at 512k. I wonder how much it will actually cost to get that upload speed changed from 256 to 300 without anyone really noticing any sort of change at all. Personally I am considering dropping down to the 2mb tier as its alot cheaper and I basically get the same upload speed as I do now.
If NTL had increased the top upload tier to 512k then I would no doubt use that one instead. Its annoying having to wait a large amount of time to upload the video I have taken with my cam to my web space.

I will probably try the 3mb tier for a few months for novilty value but i REALLY want to see a power users tier. I had to download the world of warcraft beta the other day, as well as the matrix online beta. both of them together were over 6 gigs and I am a subscribed fileplanet user and download many betas a month. Not everyone is a warez kiddy, some of us really do enjoy the speed of broadband and use it for our personal entertainment legally.

With some new companies starting to advertise movies on broadband, I am starting to wonder hwo it will be compatable with speed caps, especially if they are promoted by NTL. "try the new movies via broadband service(P.S you can only watch 10 a month because you will reach your cap)"

Bottom line is, if NTL start to hastle me about my useage then I will simply switch to one of the many advertised no cap services. NTL knows this and thats why they dont strictly enforce the cap as of this moment. But they do know that the majority of customers will be "worried" about this cap and use far less than theya re allowed.


There are always ways to get past port blocking. bittorrent can just be used on any unblocked port you want. so NTL will have to block every port to block bittorrent, which they wont do and is not feasable to do. and as bittorrent seems like the next big p2p thing, such as exeem then port blocking is not going to do much.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by Thorny

Bottom line is, if NTL start to hastle me about my useage then I will simply switch to one of the many advertised no cap services. NTL knows this and thats why they dont strictly enforce the cap as of this moment. But they do know that the majority of customers will be "worried" about this cap and use far less than theya re allowed.


There are always ways to get past port blocking. bittorrent can just be used on any unblocked port you want. so NTL will have to block every port to block bittorrent, which they wont do and is not feasable to do. and as bittorrent seems like the next big p2p thing, such as exeem then port blocking is not going to do much.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the majority of customers don't actually give a monkeys about current or future usage limits.

Sorry again to burst your bubble but port blocking is irrelevant to modern peer to peer management, I suggest you google "deep packet inspection".

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

My rant is far from one sided I have said many nasty things about BT, on both BT and NTL I have had more praise for NTL in the past, if you check my recent stuff on NTL it has mostly been negative yes.

Reasons for my negativity.
I want digital tv, no sign of it coming from NTL
I hate india call centres
I consider myself a power user and need to speak to a technically adapt person if I ring tech support.
I need a consumer broadband package that will allow around 50 gig a month in the package price.
I like to feel like the company values me as a customer.

Stuff that I dont like about NTL but I havent made a big fuss about.
Transperent proxies
Unreliable Email

Stuff I like about NTL
Convenient to get all tv/cable/phone of 1 provider
Free access to football highlights
Free to use cable modem
Flexible billing department
Online instant upgrading of broadband (BT dont offer)
Nice and very cheap to ring my friends and family who are on NTL.

This is getting off topic tho so wont rant on.

50 GB a month Broadband? I reckon that's soon to be a thing of the past.From the way ISP's have behaved in the past as soon as one ISP starts doing summat different they all start doing it.Won't be long before they are all either charging through the nose for an uncapped service and or providing a cheaper capped service.

Incog.

[mcmanic]

thing is as always we are not given a choice are we, if you have no choice but to use ntl then your stuck with them, nearly all other companies provide at least 1 tier/service uncapped, i'd rather pay say 512upload uncapped, than 3meg capped cos speed isn't everything but can be nice.

and out of interest what is the usage on 1.5meg if you don't upgrade and signup to this new laughable capped service?

i presume it stays at a laughable capped 30gig a month unmonitored and would remain that cos your paying more than the new 2meg subscribers with this new laughable 30meg cap and their new contract

Originally Posted by mcmanic

thing is as always we are not given a choice are we, if you have no choice but to use ntl then your stuck with them, nearly all other companies provide at least 1 tier/service uncapped, i'd rather pay say 512upload uncapped, than 3meg capped cos speed isn't everything but can be nice.

and out of interest what is the usage on 1.5meg if you don't upgrade and signup to this new laughable capped service?

i presume it stays at a laughable capped 30gig a month unmonitored and would remain that cos your paying more than the new 2meg subscribers with this new laughable 30meg cap and their new contract

Err you can stay at the old rate if you prefer.You just don't pay the extra £25 pounds

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by Ignition

Sorry to burst your bubble but the majority of customers don't actually give a monkeys about current or future usage limits.

Would you not think that is because they don't understand the implications of such a limit?

If the government introduced a law that the majority of people didn't understand, and in turn didn't complain, would that mean they agree with it?