Smoking in public places to be banned

Originally Posted by Bifta

Actually I do vote, and so far it's done me some good.

Why? Possibly because a lot of other people agreed with your POV?

It's sort of like writing to your MP, if other people agree with you and also write, MPs tend to take notice.

Actual Translation: I didn't and don't consider you worth the miniscule amount of time it'd take to think one up. (and btw, laughing at your own unamusing comments is a bit pathetic)

If you had been able to counter my comment, you would have done. Instead you resorted to attacking *how* it was said, rather than *what* was said. An act of someone desperately trying not to lose a point.

And red repping me for it was even more "pathetic".

Now, shall we get back to discussing the topic?

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don't follow, are you suggesting that smokers should be denied nhs treatment?

Let me see. I've just said "My point was that, as you said below, *EVERYONE* who is a UK citizen has the right to health treatment that is free at the point of delivery, whether they're a smoker or not" in post #126.

What do you think?

[Steve H]

Originally Posted by Bifta

It's hardly our fault that the revenue from tobacco sales is not portioned off to the NHS. Perhaps people like you should be greatful that the extra taxes WE pay are covering things that you'd have to pay extra for if we didn't smoke.

I'd be more greatful if you didn't smoke to be honest.. Your almost making it out as though your doing us a favour smoking. As for recieving treatment on NHS.. If two people were to be rushed into A&E, one suffering from a heart attack due to excessive smoking, and the other suffering a heart attack from natural causes, and only one case could take priority.. Should the fact that one case was of direct consequence of the smokers actions have any affect on who was to take priority?

IMO, yes it should. You fully know what your doing to yourself when you smoke. Your actions shouldn't make another person suffer.

Anyway, lets try to keep this friendly guys, no attacking each other please

[goblin]

Originally Posted by Steve H

I'd be more greatful if you didn't smoke to be honest.. Your almost making it out as though your doing us a favour smoking. As for recieving treatment on NHS.. If two people were to be rushed into A&E, one suffering from a heart attack due to excessive smoking, and the other suffering a heart attack from natural causes, and only one case could take priority.. Should the fact that one case was of direct consequence of the smokers actions have any affect on who was to take priority?

IMO, yes it should. You fully know what your doing to yourself when you smoke. Your actions shouldn't make another person suffer.

Hi,

Just passing through and noticed this thread, so thought I would add an opinion.

The non-smoker should be permitted to pass away peacefully without further intervention. Afterall, using your perspective. The non-smoker has done nothing to further the on-set of their condition. The set of circumstances that brought them to your hospital is due to "natural causes". So he or she is part of a given societies 'natural wastage', a person whos time is up. Mother nature (or some other entity) has deemed them superflous to requirements. The heart attack they have just suffered is the means by which they have been dispensed with. Afterall, we all have to go somehow and lets face it, heart-attacks aren't always a causal effect of smoking.

Where as the 'smokers' condition is obviously brought about by a lifestyle choice. Or an inate weakness. So using your idea, they would naturally be the one to receive treatment as their time isn't up. Their condition at that point would be down to a physiological defect as opposed to a natural one as in the case of the non-smoker. The smoker maybe heading for a life changing experience, they may go on to profess that in that moment in the hospital they saw their "god", thus promoting this belief in their local community. They may even be about to make a life changing discovery, something that could benefit mankind as a whole. It maybe something revolutionary, like... oh I don't know. Possibly, smoking can be one of many causes of a heart attack for instance. You get the idea, something totally "off the wall" like that.

Whilst the "non-smoker" who followed all the "right" rules and made all the "right" choices according to those around him or her. The best they can hope for is to fertilise a weed, or perhaps a nice flower. Or at the very least provide food for a bug or something.

Yes, I agree with you. A persons actions shouldn't make another person suffer.

Around and around and around we go.

Why can't we just organise it between us.Make half the pubs and clubs in a city/town non smoking and the others stay as smoking.Then those who are non smoking workers in the pub and catering industry can work in the non smoking establishments and vice versa.We really don't need legislation to sort this out.We can be adult about it surely?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Graham

Let me see. I've just said "My point was that, as you said below, *EVERYONE* who is a UK citizen has the right to health treatment that is free at the point of delivery, whether they're a smoker or not" in post #126.

What do you think?

Just what you posted in post 122 and then in post 126 infers, to me anyway, that smokers are entitled to NHS treatment - despite the fact that they are smokers. Like that's a bad thing

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Steve H

I'd be more greatful if you didn't smoke to be honest.. Your almost making it out as though your doing us a favour smoking. As for recieving treatment on NHS.. If two people were to be rushed into A&E, one suffering from a heart attack due to excessive smoking, and the other suffering a heart attack from natural causes, and only one case could take priority.. Should the fact that one case was of direct consequence of the smokers actions have any affect on who was to take priority?

Perhaps you should take grahams lead, write to your MP and ask why the extra funds we pay aren't funding the NHS so they're able to treat both cases simultaneously.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Steve H

I'd be more greatful if you didn't smoke to be honest.. Your almost making it out as though your doing us a favour smoking. As for recieving treatment on NHS.. If two people were to be rushed into A&E, one suffering from a heart attack due to excessive smoking, and the other suffering a heart attack from natural causes, and only one case could take priority.. Should the fact that one case was of direct consequence of the smokers actions have any affect on who was to take priority?

IMO, yes it should. You fully know what your doing to yourself when you smoke. Your actions shouldn't make another person suffer.

Anyway, lets try to keep this friendly guys, no attacking each other please

Dangerous ground when you start down that road.

If a trapeze artist and a car accident victim are brought it with broken necks and you can only treat one do you treat the car accident victim first because the trapeze artist knew he taking a risk with his life?

We all take risks in life, no one should receive preferential treatment beacause in "someones opinion" their lifestyle brought on the condition.

Who are you, or we, to judge.

[zovat]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Dangerous ground when you start down that road.

If a trapeze artist and a car accident victim are brought it with broken necks and you can only treat one do you treat the car accident victim first because the trapeze artist knew he taking a risk with his life?

We all take risks in life, no one should receive preferential treatment beacause in "someones opinion" their lifestyle brought on the condition.

Who are you, or we, to judge.

[zoombini]

Originally Posted by Pierre

If a trapeze artist and a car accident victim are brought it with broken necks and you can only treat one do you treat the car accident victim first because the trapeze artist knew he(edit: or she was) taking a risk with his(edit again /her) life?

Depends which has the biggest boobies

This thread is getting too argumentative, too repetative & too personal.
Just like it always does when this subject is bought up.

[Wolf]

I don't smoke apart from the occasional special wrap on a day out. I don't mind pub smoking as long as the smoke is extracted by a proper system. I hate going home smelling like an ash tray. I work in retail and I hate smokers because they stink. Chewing gum does NOT help. There should be not smoking on the streets. Smokers ignore warnings on packets which means they are trying to cause man laughter to the rest of us. Get rid of phone booths and make smoking booths. Ban smoking breaks as it's discrimination against non-smokers. I get extremely annoyed by ASDA who let customers smoke in the main entrance to the shop. Very unhealthy and disgusting.

Have smokers looked at there teeth? Have they notice there cough? Have they noticed how ugly they are getting?
Someone i know died a year ago because of smoking. She had a stroke and survived but her body wasn't strong enough to fight infections as she was wheel chair bound. Sadly she drowned in hospital due to excessive fluid on her lungs. I have a friend who is pregnant yet she insists on smoking. And another friend whos mother and sister smoked all the way through there pregnancies and think its fine. I will lock my missus up if she tried to hurt my unborn child. Hopefully so would any sensible father.

This are my views and i hope that i didn't offend. if i did i apologise.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Just what you posted in post 122 and then in post 126 infers, to me anyway, that smokers are entitled to NHS treatment - despite the fact that they are smokers. Like that's a bad thing

I really cannot follow this logic. The fact of them being smokers has *no* relevance to their *entitlement* to treatment.

Originally Posted by Bifta

Perhaps you should take grahams lead, write to your MP and ask why the extra funds we pay aren't funding the NHS so they're able to treat both cases simultaneously.

A very sensible suggestion.

Originally Posted by Wolf

I don't smoke apart from the occasional special wrap on a day out. I don't mind pub smoking as long as the smoke is extracted by a proper system. I hate going home smelling like an ash tray. I work in retail and I hate smokers because they stink. Chewing gum does NOT help. There should be not smoking on the streets. Smokers ignore warnings on packets which means they are trying to cause man laughter to the rest of us. Get rid of phone booths and make smoking booths. Ban smoking breaks as it's discrimination against non-smokers. I get extremely annoyed by ASDA who let customers smoke in the main entrance to the shop. Very unhealthy and disgusting.

Have smokers looked at there teeth? Have they notice there cough? Have they noticed how ugly they are getting?
Someone i know died a year ago because of smoking. She had a stroke and survived but her body wasn't strong enough to fight infections as she was wheel chair bound. Sadly she drowned in hospital due to excessive fluid on her lungs. I have a friend who is pregnant yet she insists on smoking. And another friend whos mother and sister smoked all the way through there pregnancies and think its fine. I will lock my missus up if she tried to hurt my unborn child. Hopefully so would any sensible father.

This are my views and i hope that i didn't offend. if i did i apologise.

Dont apologise. No need to.

I could have apologised to Graham for comments I made here but I wont because I'm actually not sorry.

Your views are your views, and if others dont like them then so what?
I just pick at graham because of the wording etc he uses. Not that it offends me.
I htink Graham is right to stick by his views, but sometimes i dont agree with them. Ok MOst of the time I dont agree with them and I am sure the rest of the time I can lie just so we can get a good debate going

But dont ever apologise to people for offending them by your views. Well not here and not if your views are legal.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

I htink Graham is right to stick by his views, but sometimes i dont agree with them. Ok MOst of the time I dont agree with them and I am sure the rest of the time I can lie just so we can get a good debate going

But dont ever apologise to people for offending them by your views. Well not here and not if your views are legal.

I think I should probably disagree with this just out of sheer bloody-mindedness...!

(Good points, though!)