UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[pip08456]

So now "benefits of EU membership" can be Cherry Picked?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

So now "benefits of EU membership" can be Cherry Picked?

That's what we were told by Vote Leave if I remember rightly.

But let's not get stuck in the past, we need to get the best possible deal as the country's already encountering high levels of unemployment and we can't afford to get it wrong.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by pip08456

So now "benefits of EU membership" can be Cherry Picked?

Your pedantry to sidetrack the discussion based on single sentences knows no bounds.

Although I agree yes, the UK are seeking to cherry pick.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

“The benefits“ of trade does not preclude there being other benefits. I didn’t say “all benefits”.

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:42 ----------



2016: Easiest trade deal going.
2017: May’s deal
2019: Boris deal shifts effective leaving date to end of 2020
2020: Biggest economic shock since Great Recession.

No, it’s not obvious to me that businesses have had “ample time”. We haven’t held a coherent policy position for 18 months.

I’m afraid your bullshit about optimism, or lack thereof, has no impact on whether the UK makes a success of this or not.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1947



How is that Chinese trade deal looking?

What a crass position you are taking, jfman! Any business worth its salt would have planned to exit the EU with a deal and to exit without a deal. A pretty binary choice, and they have known this from the get-go. The third option, now dismissed, was to stay in the EU, which would have meant no change.

The Chinese? Well, that presents a really great opportunity if they keep within international rule of law, but in the absence of that, have you taken a look at a globe recently? Still plenty of opportunities out there.

But you are not an entrepreneurial type of person, so you just don't see them.

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Infer all you please, that's not my intent and I don't think anyone else who reads the post will think I had freedom of movement as a 'benefit' that Britain wants.

Maybe so, but that iswhat the EU wants. You don't get it, do you?

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

So now "benefits of EU membership" can be Cherry Picked?

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's what we were told by Vote Leave if I remember rightly.

But let's not get stuck in the past, we need to get the best possible deal as the country's already encountering high levels of unemployment and we can't afford to get it wrong.

Well, let's start by not being so negative about leaving the EU, then.

---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 20:02 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Your pedantry to sidetrack the discussion based on single sentences knows no bounds.

Although I agree yes, the UK are seeking to cherry pick.

No, we're not. We just want a no-tariff trade deal with no strings. Pray, tell me what is wrong with that, and don't forget to look at trade deals everywhere else around the world.

The EU is not the centre of the universe, jfman. I hope I am not the first to break it to you.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What a crass position you are taking, jfman! Any business worth its salt would have planned to exit the EU with a deal and to exit without a deal. A pretty binary choice, and they have known this from the get-go. The third option, now dismissed, was to stay in the EU, which would have meant no change.

Why? Government policy for over two years was to leave with a deal. As the forum arch-capitalist willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of lives for a couple of percentage points on GDP, why would companies waste money planning for an eventuality that wasn't Government policy?

The Chinese? Well, that presents a really great opportunity if they keep within international rule of law, but in the absence of that, have you taken a look at a globe recently? Still plenty of opportunities out there.

But you are not an entrepreneurial type of person, so you just don't see them.

At no point have I denied there are opportunities - I've been clear though that the situation is challenging, a challenge you I don't think you underestimate, but simply I think you ignore for ideological reasons.

No China trade deal, no EU trade deal, if Trump gets beat in November how does a US trade deal go with Biden?

Maybe so, but that iswhat the EU wants. You don't get it, do you?

Well, let's start by not being so negative about leaving the EU, then.

Are you dictating to others on the forum they aren't entitled to be sceptical? It's embarrassing Old Boy, although unsurprising given the amount there is to be sceptical of about your blue-sky plans where hope is all we need to succeed

No, we're not. We just want a no-tariff trade deal with no strings. Pray, tell me what is wrong with that, and don't forget to look at trade deals everywhere else around the world.

The EU is not the centre of the universe, jfman. I hope I am not the first to break it to you.

At no point have I ever claimed the EU is the centre of the universe. I'm making one simple point here, which you are struggling with apparently so rehashing old debates that expose your own naivety (China trade deal for example).

12 extra months leaves us better prepared to negotiate trade deals ready to go on day 1 at the end of the transition. None of your hope, or optimism, changes that fact.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

<SNIP>

But let's not get stuck in the past, we need to get the best possible deal as the country's already encountering high levels of unemployment and we can't afford to get it wrong.

Andrew,

What would this "best possible deal" look like? To my mind, the "best possible deal" would logically be the one suggested by Barnier in the past. The Canada model.

Why won't they give us that now? What would an extension achieve? A Canada style deal with no other stipulations from the EU?

As to high levels of unemployment, the EU has this too and level playing field requirements would fetter our ability to develop as fast as possible.

[RichardCoulter]

I received this from the Government today regarding the changes that will need to be made when the transitional period ends on 31/12/20:

https://www.gov.uk/transition

The idea is that you go through it and tick the different activities that your business/life is involved in. Then, at the end, you can request email updates about what is changing and what will need to be done.

It's a very good idea, but the claim that everything would be easy and run smoothly for businesses from 1/1/21 was clearly a lie.

I have a friend who is originally from Ireland that supported Brexit, ironically, the other day he posted to complain about having to apply to stay in Britain and that him and his family feel now feel insecure. The daft thing is that he won't need to worry as Irish people can come to live here regardless of the EU position.

Another friend now lives in Spain and wanted Brexit too. She posted today that she is worried about what will happen to her in January!

I'm pretty 50/50 with Brexit, and thought that there were good & bad outcomes from choosing to stay in the EU or from leaving. However, it's becoming clear that some of my friends didn't properly think through how leaving would affect them and that leaving isn't going to be as easy as was claimed by Johnson et al.

Of course, it's all going to be made much worse with the forthcoming recession arising from coronavirus that will be the worst that any of us has ever seen in our lifetime.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Andrew,

What would this "best possible deal" look like? To my mind, the "best possible deal" would logically be the one suggested by Barnier in the past. The Canada model.

Why won't they give us that now? What would an extension achieve? A Canada style deal with no other stipulations from the EU?

As to high levels of unemployment, the EU has this too and level playing field requirements would fetter our ability to develop as fast as possible.

I would be keen to see services in the deal as that's a key strength of this country. Too much attention is paid to fishing which accounts for minimal GDP and half the UK shipping fleet has been sold to overseas owners anyway.

I see having a level playing field as working strongly in the UK's favour. We're a rich country with a high minimum wage and until recently, didn't over-interfere in industry. Such rules would actually work in favour by keeping out subsidised, unfair competition from Europe.

[jfman]

Taking Back Control

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...n-tells-huawei

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Taking Back Control

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...n-tells-huawei

Taking back control from the EU is distinct from being under US influence which would have happened anyway.

To my reading, once the US had embargoed the use of US silicon in Huawei products, security risks increased vastly as Huawei would have to use less secure chips that could then be compromised.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Taking back control from the EU is distinct from being under US influence which would have happened anyway.

To my reading, once the US had embargoed the use of US silicon in Huawei products, security risks increased vastly as Huawei would have to use less secure chips that could then be compromised.

I'm only opining as to how geopolitics severely limits our control, especially as we deal with the genuinely big economic players - China, the USA and the EU.

We could find ourselves in a considerably bad position should the USA shift on China, with it's economic leverage I'm sure the Chinese would be more forgiving of a new President being more pragmatic. Would it feel the same about the UK? Or would it feel the whole Huawei, and Hong Kong, situation to be a slur on their character? Who knows.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

I'm only opining as to how geopolitics severely limits our control, especially as we deal with the genuinely big economic players - China, the USA and the EU.

We could find ourselves in a considerably bad position should the USA shift on China, with it's economic leverage I'm sure the Chinese would be more forgiving of a new President being more pragmatic. Would it feel the same about the UK? Or would it feel the whole Huawei, and Hong Kong, situation to be a slur on their character? Who knows.

November may thus come to our rescue.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Taking back control from the EU is distinct from being under US influence which would have happened anyway.

To my reading, once the US had embargoed the use of US silicon in Huawei products, security risks increased vastly as Huawei would have to use less secure chips that could then be compromised.

Germany and France have ar retaining Huwaei tech. So why has the UK acted differently? From what I've read, the UK explained to China that its actions were tactical to keep the US on board for trade talks but could be amended if Trump was not re-elected, as seems likely.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Germany and France have ar retaining Huwaei tech. So why has the UK acted differently? From what I've read, the UK explained to China that its actions were tactical to keep the US on board for trade talks but could be amended if Trump was not re-elected, as seems likely.

In addition to trade deal sensitivity, maybe also the 5 eyses relationship.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Germany and France have ar retaining Huwaei tech. So why has the UK acted differently? From what I've read, the UK explained to China that its actions were tactical to keep the US on board for trade talks but could be amended if Trump was not re-elected, as seems likely.

Whatever the reason. It is ultimately the right decision.