15-05-2020, 12:47
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#3376
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
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Posts: 11,955
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Sorry I forgot quotation marks. I was paraphrasing the sentiment of the article, and other articles, that I view as deflecting from the pertinent questions around this. Testing and contact tracing.
We get this right and the lockdown is worth it. We get this wrong and we will be back in lockdown by August.
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"Padawan"!
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Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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15-05-2020, 13:09
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#3377
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,175
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
A comment copied over from the Keir Starmer thread:
The Vallance quote is however lacking context.
It was made on best evidence at the time, but it was made at a specific and quite early stage of the crisis and was not qualified in any way as far as I can see. Did he offer 20,000 as a pinpoint for 'good' beyond which all is 'bad', or is it at the lower, mid or upper range of a scale of 'good'? How far beyond it is 'meh'? At what point do we hit 'truly awful'?
And ultimately, are we more interested in whether it's 20,000 extremely sick people who would have died this year anyway but now have Covid-19 on their death certificate too, or are we interested in an 'excess death' figure that tries to get closer to the actual impact on the size and health of the population?
I'm not trying to obfuscate here; simply pointing out that regardless of who it was who stood up and said '20,000' its value in isolation is strictly limited. And also that cold, dispassionate statistics, collated many months from now, are the only things that can actually give us a good idea how good or bad the government's response was.
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I agree with your points - however, my response was to a post which stated
Quote:
No one could possibly know what a “good “ outcome for the U.K. would or could have been
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I was pointing out this was not congruent with actuality, as senior Government officials actually had.
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There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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15-05-2020, 13:27
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#3378
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,265
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
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It's an interesting change from last July when there was talk of revering the sugar tax and rolling back the "nanny state".
Quote:
Boris Johnson will end the “continuing creep of the nanny state” if he becomes prime minister, starting with a review of so-called “sin taxes” on sugary, salty and fatty foods.
The former foreign secretary wants to reverse the interventionist policies pursued by Theresa May and David Cameron in favour of a more liberal agenda.
He believes that taxes on less healthy foods “clobber those who can least afford it” and should be halted unless there is clear evidence that they work.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...in-taxes-food/
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15-05-2020, 13:38
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#3379
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Sad Doig Fan!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barry South Wales
Age: 68
Services: With VM for BB 250Mb service.(Deal)
Posts: 11,670
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Sorry I forgot quotation marks. I was paraphrasing the sentiment of the article, and other articles, that I view as deflecting from the pertinent questions around this. Testing and contact tracing.
We get this right and the lockdown is worth it. We get this wrong and we will be back in lockdown by August.
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Trump doesn't agree with you.
"When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn't do any testing we would have very few cases."
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15-05-2020, 13:50
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#3380
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,461
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456
Trump doesn't agree with you.
"When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn't do any testing we would have very few cases."
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I'm delighted to be on the wrong side of the fence in this case.
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15-05-2020, 15:02
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#3381
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,072
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
I was pointing out this was not congruent with actuality, as senior Government officials actually had.
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The CSA (not Government) in a commons hearing on March 18th (or around then) said when compared to annual flu deaths of 8,000 then 20,000 would be a good outcome.
But this was when the epidemic was in its infancy, WHO had only declared the pandemic 10 days before and only 81 people had died in the UK.
So he was foolish to make that statement, Professor Chris Whitty, has continually refused to put a figure on it.
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The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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15-05-2020, 15:16
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#3382
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Up here
Posts: 36,566
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
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I wish them luck. See the queues outside McDonalds, KFC, Burger King, or whatever when their drive through reopened?
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15-05-2020, 15:31
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#3383
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,461
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
The CSA (not Government) in a commons hearing on March 18th (or around then) said when compared to annual flu deaths of 8,000 then 20,000 would be a good outcome.
But this was when the epidemic was in its infancy, WHO had only declared the pandemic 10 days before and only 81 people had died in the UK.
So he was foolish to make that statement, Professor Chris Whitty, has continually refused to put a figure on it.
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Of course the delay in the fact it was declared a pandemic ten days earlier is irrelevant. It was complete semantics, due to the absence of sustained community transmission in South America.
The epidemic was far underway in Europe, and the UK, by then. The absence of community to community transmission in South America a complete irrelevance to what we could/should have been doing.
'Only 81' people had died should have been alarm bells ringing everywhere. If we follow your logic, and in fact I'm sure the Conservatives will, every policy failure can be fobbed off at the result of a nameless, faceless bureaucrat in Whitehall.
Last edited by jfman; 15-05-2020 at 15:35.
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15-05-2020, 15:46
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#3384
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Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nottingham
Age: 61
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Posts: 27,838
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
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Ah yes, more state inteference, because that always works.
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Baby, I was born this way.
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15-05-2020, 16:04
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#3385
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,265
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Ah yes, more state inteference, because that always works.
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Probably tiny compared to the state interference that has brought the R rate to less than 1.
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15-05-2020, 16:14
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#3386
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 68
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 9,837
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Re: Coronavirus
I think we should remember that all this stuff we are buying from the shops is coming from warehouses. And they are possibly not receiving new stock in from manufacturers as many production centres are not running both here and abroad.
That's why the world needs to get back to work.
Rationing anyone?
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15-05-2020, 16:20
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#3387
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Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,259
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Ah yes, more state inteference, because that always works.
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But the intervention on smoking shows it can work. Public health campaigns, the taxation and the ban on smoking in pubs reduced the rates of smoking.
The Governments has quite a few tools at it's disposal to help influence public behaviour.
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15-05-2020, 16:39
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#3388
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,461
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf
I think we should remember that all this stuff we are buying from the shops is coming from warehouses. And they are possibly not receiving new stock in from manufacturers as many production centres are not running both here and abroad.
That's why the world needs to get back to work.
Rationing anyone?
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It's not why the world needs to go back to work. It's why some need to go back to work, and others need to do what they can to facilitate that happening safely.
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15-05-2020, 16:41
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#3389
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
It's not why the world needs to go back to work. It's why some need to go back to work, and others need to do what they can to facilitate that happening safely.
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... but Taf has a point.
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Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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15-05-2020, 16:43
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#3390
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,339
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
... but Taf has a point.
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Yes but it must be done safely don't you agree?.
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