Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by Mr K

Much like all the other things voted on yesterday, meaningless. Apparently we have to wait another 2 weeks for another 'meaningful' vote -which will doubtless be ignored if it gives the wrong answer !

I know this maybe controversial, but I'm beginning to think politicians are a total waste of time and money...

Actually the Cooper amendment wasn’t meaningless; it would have led to primary legislation that at the very least would have delayed Brexit and would have made a No Deal outcome far less likely. It is instructive that Parliament is willing to pass non-binding amendments that lean on the government to do certain things (or refrain from doing things), but it is not prepared to take over the executive functions of government by taking over the parliamentary legislative programme and using it to direct the government to act or not to act.

Last night’s events were not meaningless. Parliament has left the government in charge of the process.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

I can pretty much guarantee they've been taking lessons from the Donald Trump school of ownership. Own the wins, blame everyone else for the failures.

What failures? - Trump's policies on the Economy have worked though, Tax cuts and revoking of the job killing regulations that Obama put in, so he does own it, it's booming over there. US economy growing at annual rate of 4.1%. Something President Obama said would never happen under a Trump Presidency. The US economy roared ahead in the second quarter of 2018, growing at an annual rate of 4.1%, its fastest pace in four years.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Mick

What failures?

The recent example is where Trump originally said he'd be happy to own the shutdown and not blame the Democrats. As soon as it happened by his own decision he blamed the Democrats for it.

Previously whenever the stock market went up, it was purely his doing. When it went down it was the Federal Reserve or others that were causing it.

[djfunkdup]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

[/B]

It shows that they don't share your view of how brexit should proceed, maybe it's your version that is just out of touch.

Totally lol.. Out of touch by a Zillion miles

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The recent example is where Trump originally said he'd be happy to own the shutdown and not blame the Democrats. As soon as it happened by his own decision he blamed the Democrats for it.

Previously whenever the stock market went up, it was purely his doing. When it went down it was the Federal Reserve or others that were causing it.

And he was probably right when he said others were causing it - The Shutdown was down to the Democrats and their pathetic political games.

Anyway, we are not going to agree on this issue and in any case, we shouldn't be over discussing Trump and his financial policies in the Brexit thread.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

What failures? - Trump's policies on the Economy have worked though, Tax cuts and revoking of the job killing regulations that Obama put in, so he does own it, it's booming over there. US economy growing at annual rate of 4.1%. Something President Obama said would never happen under a Trump Presidency. The US economy roared ahead in the second quarter of 2018, growing at an annual rate of 4.1%, its fastest pace in four years.

Travelling regularly to the US for work. The vast majority of people who I speak too both whom i work with and regular people i talk to when out and about (West Coast, SF & Central, MSP) are fearful of an impending recession.

Also, the attached data quite clearly shows the current gap in market performance between Trump & Obama

Tax cuts have had little to no benefit to the ordinary citizen, and lets not get started on his ridiculous shutdown which cost the US economy several $Bn dollars

Trump should not be used an example, he owns nothing, apart from his delusional stupidity.


edit: just noticed off topic, no further post on this here

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

The ball is now firmly in EU hands, their move.

It’s all well and good, them playing a tough hand, “We won’t budge.”

But as it stands. Germany is on brink of recession. Ireland’s economy could crash also if No deal becomes the only way forward. The EU cannot afford to take such a financial hit.

They’ve offered really only to extend A50 or revoke it, that was overwhelmingly rejected last night in parliament, a second referendum will now not be entertained, the Cooper Amendment and Grieve Amendment could have paved a way for this, but that got killed last night.

No, the EU wants us to keep voting. Well, we’re not singing to their tune and the cracks are appearing all over the place.

I'd honestly like to know what makes you think that we will absorb any financial hit better than the EU will?

An interesting piece here on the EU’s habit of insisting something can’t be done and won’t be done, right before it goes ahead and does it anyway:

https://order-order.com/2019/01/30/e...des-flip-flop/

The EU claims that the back-stop is unlikely to come into play, so a time limit on something that is unlikely to happen is not a reason for the EU to force a disorderly Brexit. The EU consistently bends the rules when they come under pressure…

Originally Posted by Chris

An interesting piece here on the EU’s habit of insisting something can’t be done and won’t be done, right before it goes ahead and does it anyway:

https://order-order.com/2019/01/30/e...des-flip-flop/

Here's hoping...

More thoughts..

I think the challenge might be that in the example quoted, that was the EU helping/supporting a Member State - in this instance, we are trying not to be a Member State.

Why should the EU helps a country that is trying to leave to the detriment of a Member State (Ireland)?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Why should the EU helps a country that is trying to leave to the detriment of a Member State (Ireland)?

Because UK leaving without a deal will be even more to the detriment of Ireland.

[djfunkdup]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Why should the EU helps a country that is trying to leave to the detriment of a Member State (Ireland)?

Easy answer
..... Euros


Behind the scenes the chaps with the bean counters will know exactly what the financial impact will be .. Watch this space .. Watch them concede ...

Originally Posted by Pierre

Because UK leaving without a deal will be even more to the detriment of Ireland.

Ding ding - Bingo.

Ireland will still be a EU Member State - it is in EU's interest and Ireland's not take this pathetic "we must punish UK" for leaving us attitude.

This is also in response to mrmisoffelees.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

Ding ding - Bingo.

Ireland will still be a EU Member State - it is in EU's interest and Ireland's not take this pathetic "we must punish UK" for leaving us attitude.

This is also in response to mrmisoffelees.

Valid point, however, surely the primary interest of the EU is to protect the sanctity of the EU?

If they were to weaken it potentially leads to issues inside the bloc

They are going to protect their own, and if that means punishing the UK then that's the route I suspect they will take.

What is the non-backstop, non-customs union answer to the boarder though?

That's why I think the EU is so keen on it because it's not clear how our 'future trading relationship' would solve this problem unless that relationship is a customs union?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Valid point, however, surely the primary interest of the EU is to protect the sanctity of the EU?

How does finding another solution than the backstop endanger the sanctity of the EU?

The EU said to May/UK, stop arguing, the deal is on the table, come back to us with a consensus that will get the deal over the line.

That is precisely what we have done, we have gone back and said, we'll take the deal, we'll even pay you the £40+ Billion (with no strings)

but we can't agree to the backstop, change the backstop and you have a deal

Now, to anyone with half a brain that is position to work from, if the EU continue to say "non" over this one issue they will inevitably come under immense pressure from their own members and those members governments will be under pressure from their business/industry bodies to sort something out.

It's 1no. item

I believe in common sense, and it wold be common sense to sort this 1no issue out to ensure the deal goes through.

Once the deal goes through, May will step down in September, and a new PM can sort out the future trading relationship.

---------- Post added at 14:08 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

What is the non-backstop, non-customs union answer to the boarder though?

That's why I think the EU is so keen on it because it's not clear how our 'future trading relationship' would solve this problem unless that relationship is a customs union?

Well that's they're going to have to work out. I'm sure there is an answer if they think hard enough.