12-11-2017, 13:56
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#706
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Posts: 56,352
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
I do wonder how many times the side of the Red Bus has to come in to this topic?
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As many times as other topics one suspects.
---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:48 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
I mean, it's like, everyone is to believe the remain side never told any porkies or never distorted the truth, to buy more votes.
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Both as bad as each other IMO and one should be ashamed that both sides told so many porkies to the electorate and are still doing that now sadly.
---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
Which is utter nonsense because they did!
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Absolutely.
---------- Post added at 13:54 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
Every time the Red bus issue is brought up, it's very much sanctimonious, one sided BS from some of the Remain side, not all, but some!
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And the same sentiments can also be applied to some of the Brexit side as well Mick unless you don't think so?..
---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
Neither campaign holds the moral high ground here. I am prepared to accept this and I have said this every time, even though my side won.
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Absolutely so there needs to be give and take IMO if we are ever going to get a reasonable Brexit deal that suit all in this country and not just certain groups.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
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12-11-2017, 14:32
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#707
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
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Notice it says 'Let's spend'. Most of us accept that this was a suggestion, not a promise. The campaigners were cross party and therefore they were not in a position to make promises anyway.
As for the amount, we have been over and over this. It is the gross figure.
Let's give it a rest now, shall we? That's a suggestion, by the way, not a promise!
---------- Post added at 14:32 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
Absolutely so there needs to be give and take IMO if we are ever going to get a reasonable Brexit deal that suit all in this country and not just certain groups.
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Will you tell Mr Barnier that?
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12-11-2017, 14:35
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#708
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,118
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
And the same sentiments can also be applied to some of the Brexit side as well Mick unless you don't think so?.
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Hence why I finished my last post with neither side having the moral high ground.
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12-11-2017, 14:43
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#709
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Still alive and fighting
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Will you tell Mr Barnier that?
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Both sides need to know that as it takes two sides to tango and two sides to come to a agreement unless you think otherwise?.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
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12-11-2017, 14:48
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#710
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Rise above the players
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
Both sides need to know that as it takes two sides to tango and two sides to come to a agreement unless you think otherwise?.
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Well, I don't see Barnier dancing.
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12-11-2017, 15:00
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#711
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cf.addict
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 124
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456
How many times do you have to be told. It was not a pledge but a suggestion.
It's like me saying to you let's go down the brown cow for a drink and you saying no I's prefer the black horse. No pledge anywhere there, just a simple suggestion.
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Take it this was a suggestion as well?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIYq5xMW98I
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12-11-2017, 15:11
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#712
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Leeds
Posts: 1,323
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bircho
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Unfortunately if recruitment maintains the current trend it's staff that will be thinned out, not patients.
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12-11-2017, 16:40
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#713
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Sad Doig Fan!
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bircho
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Yes, what do you think it was?
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12-11-2017, 17:34
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#714
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Rise above the players
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb
Unfortunately if recruitment maintains the current trend it's staff that will be thinned out, not patients.
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That would at least cut down on costs. They also need to become efficient, and that way they could do more with less.
There is certainly a problem with a shortage of doctors and nurses and the government has measures in place to address that.
But we need fewer managers and assorted bereaucrats, not more.
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12-11-2017, 17:52
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#715
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Woke and proud !
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
That would at least cut down on costs. They also need to become efficient, and that way they could do more with less.
There is certainly a problem with a shortage of doctors and nurses and the government has measures in place to address that.
But we need fewer managers and assorted bereaucrats, not more.
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Given the NHS is utterly dependent on a migrant workforce, and they are leaving in droves since the vote, how exactly has Brexit helped ?
Do more with less? You sound a bit like a management consultant beaureaucrat that you want to get rid of. Get rid of all the pen pushers, then nurses and drs have to do the pen pushing instead of treating patients.
The govt. have certainly 'worked on this' by getting rid of bursaries for nurses making the job even less attractive, if possible. They certainly do have an agenda to run down the NHS so Brexit is helping with that at least.
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12-11-2017, 18:24
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#716
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Rise above the players
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
Given the NHS is utterly dependent on a migrant workforce, and they are leaving in droves since the vote, how exactly has Brexit helped ?
Do more with less? You sound a bit like a management consultant beaureaucrat that you want to get rid of. Get rid of all the pen pushers, then nurses and drs have to do the pen pushing instead of treating patients.
The govt. have certainly 'worked on this' by getting rid of bursaries for nurses making the job even less attractive, if possible. They certainly do have an agenda to run down the NHS so Brexit is helping with that at least.
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Well, you are certainly doing an excellent job of peddling these Labour myths.
Have you actually noticed any difference that directly results from all those Primary Care Trusts that were abolished? Of course not, they were an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.
I had to laugh at your reference to pen pushers! They are so last century. All modern employers employ keyboard pressers these days, and believe me, they are a lot more efficient. Next thing will be that you will be complaining about the cost of carbon paper.
If you stopped picking at issues such as bursaries and concentrated on the number of doctors and nurses being trained now compared with when your beloved Labour party was in power, you would start to see the bigger picture.
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12-11-2017, 18:34
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#717
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Woke and proud !
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Well, you are certainly doing an excellent job of peddling these Labour myths.
Have you actually noticed any difference that directly results from all those Primary Care Trusts that were abolished? Of course not, they were an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.
I had to laugh at your reference to pen pushers! They are so last century. All modern employers employ keyboard pressers these days, and believe me, they are a lot more efficient. Next thing will be that you will be complaining about the cost of carbon paper.
If you stopped picking at issues such as bursaries and concentrated on the number of doctors and nurses being trained now compared with when your beloved Labour party was in power, you would start to see the bigger picture.
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The bigger (and actual) picture OB is long waiting times increasing 557% in A & E.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...y_to_clipboard
If anybody thinks Brexit is the answer to the NHS's problems they are very mistaken, it just adds to them greatly.
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12-11-2017, 18:38
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#718
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Rise above the players
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
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Well, it should cut down immigration, which is a principal reason why waiting times have increased.
The other one is that the baby boomers are getting old.
Nothing to do with the management of the NHS.
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12-11-2017, 18:43
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#719
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Well, it should cut down immigration, which is a principal reason why waiting times have increased.
The other one is that the baby boomers are getting old.
Nothing to do with the management of the NHS.
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Who are you going to blame OB? when many are already going back to their own countries and more will follow as you cannot blame them anymore for this countries increasing ills.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
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12-11-2017, 20:00
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#720
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,118
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Re: Brexit discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Well, it should cut down immigration, which is a principal reason why waiting times have increased.
The other one is that the baby boomers are getting old.
Nothing to do with the management of the NHS.
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No-one can help Mr K. Bless him, he is still happily sourcing the crappy remoaner gutter rag, theguardian, that he thinks people like you or I are going to be hoodwinked and read the BS that's printed in it.
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