Virgin on the ridiculous

This is in 'other ISPs discussion' but I think most people now know that Virgin.net is owned and operated by NTL. I just thought I would share with you all a thread of utterly mind-boggling emails I have been exchanging with Virgin's 'customer support' team, which judging by their names is somewhere on the subcontinent.

Bear with it, it's a long'un.

In the best tradition of a good 419 scambait (because that's what it feels like, except I'm the one getting baited), the Dramatis Personae:

Alison Driscoll - The friendly English-sounding person who sends me my monthly direct debit notices and other automated communications. May or may not be an actual person.
Surajeet, Ubaid and Yoginder - Script-chanting members of Virgin.net's customer 'support' team; suspected location, somewhere in India.
Chris T - Longsuffering Virgin.net customer, but probably not for much longer.

Comments not forming part of the email thread are in bold italics.

Dear Customer

Reference Number: xxxxx

Thank you for using Virgin Net as your Internet Service Provider. Unfortunately, it has been identified that the credit card details we currently hold on your file are out of date.

In order to keep your account up to date and to continue paying for your monthly customer support number (where calls are charged at your Lo-call rate), we will need your current credit card details within the next seven days.

To do this, simply click here http://www.virgin.net/customers/my_account/ to update your details online (our site is secure – no one else will see your information) or contact us on 0870 013 0070.

You will need the reference number from this email and your user name and password in order to update your details online. If you have forgotten your password, please click here https://client.virgin.net/forgottenpassword/step1

Since your card expired we may not have been able to accept recent payments from you, therefore, once your details have been amended we will debit any outstanding payments to bring your account up to date.

If you need any help or have any questions, then call 0870 013 0070 or email us on support@virgin.net.

Kind regards, and thank you for your co-operation

A simple enough request, except I don't pay by card, I use Direct Debit. This calls for further investigation:

Hi,

I have a monthly direct debit with you. Why do you suddenly need my card details? In any case, the screen you direct me to does not have any option where I can provide you with card details purely for paying for telephone support. Please advise.

Kind regards,
Chris

I get a reply from Surajeet, who is apparently a real person but who is unfortunately also apparently working from a script of sorts.

Dear Chris,

Thank you for your recent email.

I have checked your account and would like to confirm that as per our records, you have been paying by Direct Debit and it is also as your default payment method. We also have your credit card details as a backup payment method which is due to expire. Email which you have received is a system generated mail.

I would like to inform you that your credit card as the back up payment method, in case we need to process home move request in future, we need to take the first payment through credit card and hence we need to update the details in our records. However, I would like to assure you that your current payment method would not be altered.

You can check your Account Summary and if you wish you can also change your payment details online by simply clicking on the link below:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/my_account/

Click on “Account Summary� or “Change Payment Details� and follow the onscreen steps.

You will be prompted to enter your Virgin.net email address (for e.g. richard.brandson@virgin.net) and password.

I would also like to confirm that you need you get into ‘Change Payment Details’ to change your payment method as credit card, once your credit card details will be updated you need to again change your payment method as Direct Debit.

You can also call our “Customer Support� on 0870 013 0070 (Local Rate) to provide your credit card details over phone, where they will be more than happy to resolve your concern.

If you need any further assistance please contact us again, or visit the following address:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/helpme/

Kind regards,

Surajeet

Virgin.net Customer Support

Not terribly helpful - the screen she sent me to won't accept my new card!

Hi again,

Thanks for the information. However, the card details you have on file, and which are about to expire, are Visa Debit Card details for a bank I no longer have an account with. My new account has a debit card with the Maestro (formerly known as 'Switch') logo, and your card payment screen will not accept Maestro cards.

You will therefore have to accept that my account has no backup payment method beyond the monthly direct debit that is already in place. If this is a problem for you please let me know as I will have to find another internet service provider! However I hope you agree that direct debt has caused no problems for you or for me in the two years I have been your customer, and that you will be happy to continue with only Direct Debit details on my file.

Kind regards,
Chris

OK, so we're off-piste now (I certainly am ) and Surajeet, in the absence of any other options, retreats to a totally standard, totally unhelpful scripted response which boils down to, "OK, so you don't have a card we accept. Please go to the website and input your card number". Here it is in its full glory:

Dear Chris,

Thank you for your recent email.

I would like to confirm that at this point of time, following Payment methods are accepted:

1) Visa

2) Visa Delta

3) MasterCard

4) Direct Debit (The first month’s payment must be made by credit card)

We do not accept Switch, Solo, Maestro and American express card.

In order to change your payment details online, please click on the link below:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/my_account/

1) Click on the “Change payment details� option on the left hand side of the screen.

2) It will ask for your Virgin.net email address and password, please enter your email address and password in lower case without any space (for e.g. email address is richard.branson@virgin.net).

3) It will the ask you to choose your payment method, select the valid payment method and then click next.

4) Once you click next, new window will ask you to enter the bank details, please enter your bank details and then click next.

5) Click Finish.

For any query, please call our “Customer Support� on 0870 013 0070 (National Rate), where they will be more than happy to resolve your concern.

If you need any further assistance please contact us again, or visit the following address:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/helpme/

Kind regards,

Surajeet

Virgin.net Customer Support

Thanks for nothing Surajeet. I decide to reply to her, on the credit@virgin address, and this time copy in support@virgin for good measure:

Dear Surajeet,

Thank you for not reading the email I sent you on Wednesday, and for replying with what appears to be a thoroughly unhelpful cut-and-paste standard response.

Could you please *read* the information that follows, and then reply with a relevant, helpful suggestion about what I should do next. If you don't have the authority to vary your responses from the standard script I would be grateful if you could refer this to your team leader or supervisor to ensure I get an adequate response.

1. You contacted me to complain that my 'back up' payment method, a Visa card, was due to expire.
2. I informed you that my new card is not one that Virgin.net will accept (it is a Maestro card).
3. I further informed you that as I *already have a direct debit set up*, I did not see why it should be a problem for there to be no card associated with my account.

Let me repeat myself. I already have a direct debit with Virgin.net and I do not have a card of a kind you will accept, so you are going to have to continue to run my account purely with the direct debit you already have, and with no back-up card. If this is a problem for you, then please ensure your next email to me contains a migration code I can give to a new internet service provider, as I certainly will not be opening a new credit card account simply to satisfy your inadequate payment systems.

Kind regards,
Chris

I had hoped that clear, polite summary might have resulted in progress. I hoped in vain. And now, thanks to my cc'ing, I have two of the team lining up to copy and paste me their script:

Dear Chris,

Thank you for your recent email.

I have checked your account and would like to confirm that, your payment details (Direct Debit) have been successfully updated. However, your Direct Debit payment method has not been activated yet and the status is “Pending Active� because it takes nearly two weeks to get active. It is in progress.

You can check your Account Summary online by simply clicking on the link below:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/my_account/

Click on “Account Summary� and follow the onscreen steps.

You will be prompted to enter your Virgin.net email address (for e.g. richard.brandson@virgin.net) and password.

For any query please call our “Customer Support� on 0870 013 0070 (National Rate), where they will be more than happy to resolve your concern.

If you need any further assistance please contact us again, or visit the following address:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/helpme/

Kind regards,

Surajeet

Dear Chris,

Thank you for your recent email.
I have checked your account and would like to confirm that, your payment details (Direct Debit) have been successfully updated. However, your Direct Debit payment method has not been activated yet because it takes nearly two weeks to get it activated.

For more information on billing issues, please contact our Customer Support on 0870 013 0070 (National Rate).


If you need any further assistance please contact us again, or visit the following address:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/helpme/

Kind regards,

Ubaid

Virgin.net Customer Support

I decide to try to kill two birds with one stone, and reply to Surajeet and Ubaid in a single email copied to both:

Dear Surajeet and Ubaid,

Thank you both for checking my account. I will assume, based on the information you have both provided, that you do not require a credit or debit card number from me, and that you will take the payment due on my account via direct debit once it is activated. If this is not the case, could you please get someone to phone me. I have no intention of calling your non-geographic 0870 phone number, from which ntl:Telewest derives a profit, in order to help resolve issues caused by your inefficient billing systems.

I am very disappointed that your systems require so long to complete direct debit set-up; as I have recently changed bank, all of my Direct Debits have changed and Virgin is the only company among the very many I deal with that has caused me any trouble.

Kind regards,
Chris

Ubaid picks up the baton, but his attempt to be helpful and explain why he still needs my credit card number is a little pointless:

Dear Chris,

Thank you for your recent email.
Please note that it takes at least 2 to 3 weeks to activate your Direct Debit payment details.

Please be informed that we need your Credit Card details in our records.

The reason for this being that if we need to reactivate your account, the first payment after reactivation will always be drawn from a Credit Card.

The reactivation of an account will be done under two conditions, when you switch from a narrowband connection to a broadband connection or when you apply for a home move.

What's this? I'm not moving house and I already have broadband. All I've done is change bank!!!

In order to keep your account up to date and to continue paying for your monthly payments, you must have an active payment details on the next billing date and also your previous payment is outstanding.


If you need any further assistance please contact us again, or visit the following address:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/helpme/

Kind regards,

Ubaid

I fire off a quick reply. Now I'm really hacked off:


Dear Ubaid,

YOU HAVE NOT READ WHAT I WROTE.

I DO NOT HAVE A MASTERCARD OR VISA CREDIT CARD.

I HAVE A MAESTRO DEBIT CARD, WHICH YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT.

I WILL NOT GO AND SIGN UP FOR A NEW CREDIT CARD JUST BEAUSE YOUR BILLING SYSTEMS ARE TOO SLOW TO HANDLE MY DIRECT DEBIT.

SCOTTISH WATER, TV LICENCING, SCOTTISH HYDROELECTRIC, SKY TV AND STIRLING COUNCIL ALL SET UP NEW DIRECT DEBITS INSTANTLY. WHY CAN YOU NOT DO THIS?

PLEASE NOW EITHER:

1. REFER THIS TO YOUR TEAM LEADER WHO IS AUTHORISED TO DISCUSS IT WITH ME WITHOUT THE USE OF YOUR HOPELESS SCRIPT

OR

2. EMAIL ME A MIGRATION ('MAC') CODE SO I CAN TAKE MY BUSINESS ELSEWHERE.

Kind regards
Chris

But what's this? Now I really am a victim of my own cc'ing. Yoginder (who?!) gets in touch. For one insane moment I entertain the notion that he may be a supervisor with a solution. Sadly, Yoginder quickly sets me straight on that score:

Dear Mr. Townsend,

Thank you for your recent email.

Please note that it takes at least 2 to 3 weeks to activate your Direct Debit payment details.

Please be informed that we need your Credit Card details in our records.

The reason for this being that if we need to reactivate your account, the first payment after reactivation will always be drawn from a Credit Card.

The reactivation of an account will be done under two conditions, when you switch from a narrowband connection to a broadband connection or when you apply for a home move.

In order to keep your account up to date and to continue paying for your monthly payments, you must have an active payment details on the next billing date and also your previous payment is outstanding.

If you need any further assistance please contact us again, or visit the following address:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/helpme/

Kind regards,

Yoginder

Virgin.net Customer Support

I've had enough now:

Dear Yoginder,

Please note the text of an email I sent to your colleague Ubaid earlier this morning (copied text follows):

I DO NOT HAVE A MASTERCARD OR VISA CREDIT CARD.

I HAVE A MAESTRO DEBIT CARD, WHICH YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT.

I WILL NOT GO AND SIGN UP FOR A NEW CREDIT CARD JUST BEAUSE YOUR BILLING SYSTEMS ARE TOO SLOW TO HANDLE MY DIRECT DEBIT.

SCOTTISH WATER, TV LICENCING, SCOTTISH HYDROELECTRIC, SKY TV AND STIRLING COUNCIL ALL SET UP NEW DIRECT DEBITS INSTANTLY. WHY CAN YOU NOT DO THIS?

PLEASE NOW EITHER:

1. REFER THIS TO YOUR TEAM LEADER WHO IS AUTHORISED TO DISCUSS IT WITH ME WITHOUT THE USE OF YOUR HOPELESS SCRIPT

OR

2. EMAIL ME A MIGRATION ('MAC') CODE SO I CAN TAKE MY BUSINESS ELSEWHERE.


So you see, Yoginder, once again you have sent me a standard, scripted response that barely acknowledges my problem, and certainly does nothing to fix it.

There must be somebody in your office with the authority to fix this situation. Please be advised that I am unable to provide a card number of a kind acceptable to you and this will not change under any circumstances. Now please either accept that and continue to operate my account without a card number on file, or email me a MAC code so I can switch to another service provider.

Just in case you are still having difficulty understanding this:

I do not possess a credit card of a type acceptable to you. I will never possess a credit card of a type acceptable to you.

I do not possess a credit card of a type acceptable to you. I will never possess a credit card of a type acceptable to you.

I do not possess a credit card of a type acceptable to you. I will never possess a credit card of a type acceptable to you.

I do not possess a credit card of a type acceptable to you. I will never possess a credit card of a type acceptable to you.

Now can we please get past the scripted requests for a credit card number, which I AM NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU AS I DO NOT HAVE ONE, and actually try to sort this problem out?

Kind regards
Chris

To Be Continued!

-----------------------------------------------------------

If you're still reading this ... firstly congratulations for sticking with it, and secondly, any ideas?

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

hmmmm blood pressure?

Originally Posted by Chris T

If you're still reading this ... firstly congratulations for sticking with it, and secondly, any ideas?

Cancel the Direct Debit and go elsewhere. I really wouldn't waste more of my time with such an incompetant bunch.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Chris T

any ideas?)

Responsetek?

If the next email doesn't sort it just ring up cancellations/retentions. They've had more than enough chance, they've made themselves look like bloody idiots, and you've plenty of other BB suppliers to choose from.

Everyone lauds Virgin CS, but its crap really. Aside from your case, the missus rang up Virgin Tribe (their own employee discount scheme), to book £4000 worth of plane tickets, and recieved not only very poor, but borderline abusive service herself.

At the moment I am indeed planning to demand my MAC code if the very next email does not fully and finally resolve the issue.

[brundles]

Oh joy - wasn't a condition of NTL: Telewest using the Virgin brand that their CS levels matched those of the Virgin brand . I've never had a (major) problem with TW CS to date (the odd problem with their billing system but not the people). Looks like that's all going to change .

At the risk of mentioning the obvious have you tried calling the 0870 number they offered? (Although if the response there is anything like the e-mails it might just be less painful to pull some of your own teeth out with a pair of rusty pliers.)

[handyman]

Originally Posted by punky

Responsetek?

If the next email doesn't sort it just ring up cancellations/retentions. They've had more than enough chance, they've made themselves look like bloody idiots, and you've plenty of other BB suppliers to choose from.

Everyone lauds Virgin CS, but its crap really. Aside from your case, the missus rang up Virgin Tribe (their own employee discount scheme), to book £4000 worth of plane tickets, and recieved not only very poor, but borderline abusive service herself.

The only time I have flown Virgin It was a complete shambles.

[pedantic]

Information from here

0207 6646000 is Virgin.net's head office switchboard, you might get more joy from them.

They are now pleading with me to call the 0870 number (incorrectly stating it's a local rate call). I've not called it as I have no intention of lining their pockets while being kept on hold for an age, only to be told when I get to the front of the queue that I have to have a Visa or Mastercard in order to satisfy their arcane billing computer.

I have just had this, twice, from Ubaid, who has apparently realised I've been copying my mails to both credit@ and support@ and so has replied with the same message from both. That's the first evidence of initiative I've seen from them all week, but it's too little, too late as far as I'm concerned:

Dear Chris,

Thank you for your recent email.

Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience caused.

For more clarification on billing issues, I request you to contact our ‘Customer Service’ department on 0870 013 0070 (local charges).

The ‘Customer Service’ department will be more than happy to assist you.
Please note that it is not possible to provide a call back facility from email support section.


If you need any further assistance please contact us again, or visit the following address:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/helpme/

Kind regards,

Ubaid

Virgin.net Customer Support

---------- Post added at 15:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

My final word to Ubaid:

Dear Ubaid,

Thank you but as I stated previously, I have no intention of calling an 0870 number (which, incidentally, is a 'national' rate call, not local), as ntl:Telewest profits from calls made to such numbers and I do not see why I should be lining the company coffers while attempting to rectify a problem caused by your employer's inflexible billing procedures. Furthermore I have no reason to believe they will tell me anything different than you have insisted all week, that I have to give you a Visa or Mastercard in order to satisfy the arcane billing computer.

I am left with no alternative but to take my business elsewhere.

** Could you please respond to this email by providing me with the MAC code for my line so I may migrate it to an alternative service provider. **

Kind regards
Chris Townsend

[Kevin Shirley]

Originally Posted by Chris T

If you're still reading this ... firstly congratulations for sticking with it, and secondly, any ideas?

Get the MAC code from them. I know Virgin will give you a MAC code as I obtained one when I left them.

Good luck with another ISP.

Kevin

Someone called Partha has entered the fray.

Dear Chris,

Thank you for your recent email.

I would like to inform you that we are unable to forward a call back request via an email.

Please be informed that your payment details have been updated. Please note that the direct debit details need 3 to 4 weeks to become active. You may visit the link below to view the payment method details.

https://client.virgin.net/paymentcha...-paymentchange

You will be prompted for your email address (for example richard.branson@virgin.net) and password (all in lower case and no spaces).

Please click on ‘Cancel’ to avoid any changes in the payment details.

You may contact our ‘Customer Service’ on 0870 013 0070 for further clarification on the billing issue. They will be more than happy to assist you.

If you need any further assistance please contact us again, or visit the following address:

http://www.virgin.net/customers/helpme/

Kind regards,

Partha

Dear Partha,

Your colleague Ubaid contacted me earlier today and said Direct Debit requires 2-3 weeks to become active. Now you tell me it is 3-4 weeks. Which is it? I think I preferred it when you were working from a script, at least then you were all saying the same thing.

I am afraid I have no intention of calling an 0870 number, from which NTL:Telewest will make profit, in order to be told the nonsense I have been getting by email all week. If my debit card is not good enough for you, I will take my business elsewhere.

** Could you please respond to this email by providing me with the MAC code for my line so I may migrate it to an alternative service provider. **

Kind regards
Chris

The whole thing reeks of phishing to me...

Right, that's it done. The final email from Ubaid gave me an 0845 number for cancellations. I called that and (after being on hold for a mere 8 minutes), requested my MAC code. Apparently it takes up to 5 days to be generated by their systems.

She did ask why I was leaving, so I told her. I probably should've asked if I could forward her a link to this thread ...

TBH once I mentioned 'Maestro Card' she didn't put up a fight at all. I wonder whether other customers get tripped up over that as well. I can't believe they don't accept Maestro cards ... it's not as if they're rare. Well, it's cost them my business after two years of otherwise fault-free ADSL service. If they are so cavalier with their remaining customers, then I wish them an early financial meltdown. They deserve no less. Utter, disinterested incompetence.

Goodbye and goodnight NTL, at last, after almost 7 years!!

[Central]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Right, that's it done. The final email from Ubaid gave me an 0845 number for cancellations. I called that and (after being on hold for a mere 8 minutes), requested my MAC code. Apparently it takes up to 5 days to be generated by their systems.

She did ask why I was leaving, so I told her. I probably should've asked if I could forward her a link to this thread ...

TBH once I mentioned 'Maestro Card' she didn't put up a fight at all. I wonder whether other customers get tripped up over that as well. I can't believe they don't accept Maestro cards ... it's not as if they're rare. Well, it's cost them my business after two years of otherwise fault-free ADSL service. If they are so cavalier with their remaining customers, then I wish them an early financial meltdown. They deserve no less. Utter, disinterested incompetence.

Goodbye and goodnight NTL, at last, after almost 7 years!!

Get Be Unlimited

Originally Posted by Be*

Get Be Unlimited

Porquois? They aren't in ISPReview's top 10 at the moment. What's good about them?

Scrap that ... no need to answer, they appear only to do LLU business, and it's going to be a long, cold day in hell before our local exchange gets that.