European Terror Attacks

[Ignitionnet]

My major issue with the UK's response in a nutshell.

Though of course the USA did it too and Bill Maher is more blunt.

I'm largely with Cenk on this one. It's really telling when followers think they have to avenge their omnipotent deity and his chosen prophet.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

My major issue with the UK's response in a nutshell.

That's exactly what it's all about.
they're supposed to be offended that much that we effectively are too scared to criticize and let them get away with it all.

they kill us if we question this so called religion of "peace".
we get killed if we question the bit about peace. and what's so peaceful about it.

[Sirius]

Looks like the end game is playing out, Breaking news on news channels at this time.

http://news.sky.com/story/1404787/fr...n-in-car-chase

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30740115

[techguyone]

I know its the Wail but... this guy has nailed it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-massacre.html

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by techguyone

I know its the Wail but... this guy has nailed it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-massacre.html

Indeed. To think at least one of these terrorists has spent time in jail for terrorist relationships only to be released to do it again.

As for this present situation i think it will only end one way and that's with the terrorists being popped. The problem will be they will take out the hostages as well

[Osem]

Let's hope this is indeed the end and that the only fatalities are those of the terrorist ****.

I think we need to face reality and understand that there is a real threat to our freedoms and a war is being waged on that by people who would, ironically, use our freedoms and tolerance against us. These people do not hide their agenda, ambitions or willingness to commit the most heinous crimes against anyone who refuses to 'believe' and be subjugated. As distasteful as it is, I think we are sooner or later going to have to accept that if we want to maintain any semblance of freedom we are going to have to be single minded in taking on and removing from our society those who preach hatred. It will not be easy but by carrying on trying to appease people (and their supporters) who would slaughter cartoonists and anyone else who dares to disagree with them, we're only exacerbating the problem and doing their work for them.

In WWII the lives of ordinary people were strictly controlled and in the common good. It wasn't always right, it wasn't nice and many innocent people did suffer but it was necessary. The danger we face is, I feel, so severe that we must give the security services the power and resources they need to root these people out and remove them before they're allowed to further spread their poison. The sentencing they receive then needs to fully reflect the seriousness of the agenda they're pursuing and ensure they can no longer threaten us. In the shorter term this may of course increase tensions amongst some groups but that's unavoidable whatever we do - these are people who seem to be grossly offended by so much about the society they have chosen to live within. It often makes me wonder why they choose to live in the west at all if they're so offended by so much but as yet I've never heard the likes of Anjem Choudary explain that.

For those Muslims who would be offended by cartoons of the prophet, they need to understand that they have a right to feel offended but in this society that right does not extend to taking the lives of those doing the 'offending' even where it is illegal. I believe the large majority of Muslims in the UK understand this and do not support or condone terrorism or murder.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Osem

these are people who seem to be grossly offended by so much about the society they have chosen to live within. It often makes me wonder why they choose to live in the west at all if they're so offended by so much

They should go to a country where they won't be offended. where they all believe in the same things. where they will be happy.

it must be stressful for them that they chose a country to live. that they're not happy in.

are they too scared to go to another country that is suited to them and their ideal life?

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Gary L

They should go to a country where they won't be offended. where they all believe in the same things. where they will be happy.

it must be stressful for them that they chose a country to live. that they're not happy in.

are they too scared to go to another country that is suited to them and their ideal life?

The answer is they don't get the benefits there that they get here handed to them on a plate.

[tweetiepooh]

We do need to take care. How do you define "preaching hatred"? In the UK it tends to be very "victim" based so we end up with people being prosecuted for stating beliefs or upholding beliefs that do not actually state hatred. Examples would include the hoteliers who refused to allow unwed couples to share a room being prosecuted because that meant they would not allow homosexual couples to share. They would have said the same to a heterosexual couple in the same situation.

We do not want a society where you can't express your faith or opinions. There is a difference between saying you believe something is right/wrong and persecuting those you disagree with.

I do think we must not view terrorists other than as criminals. They are not animals and regardless how they behave we don't have to join them. We don't ignore them or allow them to get away with it. Neither do we bring in draconian powers, we don't know how they will be used or abused. How do you know that with a parliament change you won't get on "the list"?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

We do need to take care. How do you define "preaching hatred"? In the UK it tends to be very "victim" based so we end up with people being prosecuted for stating beliefs or upholding beliefs that do not actually state hatred. Examples would include the hoteliers who refused to allow unwed couples to share a room being prosecuted because that meant they would not allow homosexual couples to share. They would have said the same to a heterosexual couple in the same situation.

We do not want a society where you can't express your faith or opinions. There is a difference between saying you believe something is right/wrong and persecuting those you disagree with.

I do think we must not view terrorists other than as criminals. They are not animals and regardless how they behave we don't have to join them. We don't ignore them or allow them to get away with it. Neither do we bring in draconian powers, we don't know how they will be used or abused. How do you know that with a parliament change you won't get on "the list"?

Yes we do need to be careful but what was allowed to happen, openly, at the Finsbury Park Mosque and has been allowed to happen elsewhere shouldn't have been. The security services and those decent law abiding Muslims need to work together to deal with what's going on behind the scenes. Calling for troops to be beheaded, for example, is preaching hatred. Demanding that anyone who mocks Islam must be killed is preaching hatred. As distasteful as it is, refusing to serve a gay couple isn't preaching anything. Systematically indoctrinating people that gay people are evil, getting out on the streets and calling for gays to be stoned, beaten, executed is preaching hatred and cannot be tolerated.

As for lists, well people like us are already on one - if the terrorists have their way we'll be shown a lot less mercy than would be the case the other way around. Like I said, it is sad and not without risk or downside but IMHO the least worst option is stepping up the campaign against the extremists. If it's a toss up between an MI5 list and a Islamic (or other) extremist list, I know which I'd prefer to be on.

I wish the media weren't sitting on this 24 /7 as I feel it's giving publicity to their cause.By all means report it but not at this length and depth..

[Osem]

There's another shooting in Paris at a kosher supermarket apparently. It's too early to be sure what's going on but I'm looking at live video from Paris and there are a whole load of armed police aiming guns at a building in E. Paris. It's suspected to be the maniac who murdered the female police officer. Apparently there are 5 hostages being held including women and children.

It's insane. I wonder if the person in Paris at the moment is directly related, a copycat or just completely unrelated to the guys who murdered the cartoonists?

It's worth remembering there was a few people driving cars/vans into crowds in France just before Christmas as well.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I wish the media weren't sitting on this 24 /7 as I feel it's giving publicity to their cause.By all means report it but not at this length and depth..

This is the 24 hour news cycle. People can and should be shown exactly what's going on where possible. It may give these people publicity but it also shines a light on the consequences of their actions.

---------- Post added at 13:05 ---------- Previous post was at 13:03 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

It's insane. I wonder if the person in Paris at the moment is directly related, a copycat or just completely unrelated to the guys who murdered the cartoonists?

It's worth remembering there was a few people driving cars/vans into crowds in France just before Christmas as well.

Links with the policewoman who was shot on Thursday have been mooted. The terrorist allegedly told police 'You know who I am.'.

[Osem]

I reckon it's probably a 'sleeper' who seized on the first attack to carry out his very own. Makes sense for these people to act independently but to the same ends.