smoking and the pub

Originally Posted by Russ D

Wherever you left them?

I'm out of this thread....

WTF?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Shabba

I made one point that i percieve as a cultural difference. Please don't try to read more into it.

Read more in to it? I couldn't read anything in to it! If I'm reading this correctly, the fact that you believe that the Irish are more pro-european is one of the reasons why you think that more bars and pubs will close in the UK than over there?

No...you couldn't have meant that, surely?

Originally Posted by Fingy

Just think about those who work in the bar / restaurant who are subjected to the smoke day in, day out. If you are asking where your rights are, where are theirs?

They have the right to find another job - i have lost my right to smoke.

I question why a non smoker would want to breath second hand smoke and as to why a non smoker would want bar work. You can get similar pay at Macadees or BK entirely smoke free.

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Wherever you left them?

I'm out of this thread....

Pah typical united fan, when the going gets tough the tough get going.



Anyhows back on topic, smoker myself but think people will adapt but personally don't see why they should.

Have smoking only pubs and let the non smokers in when they want a beer or a chat.



If you do not want to work in a smoking enviroment then simple really don't work in one.

Bit like I want to work in a smoking enviroment but thats not going to happen.

Choice has long gone, as I would like to smoke on a plane, life is tough I can't, does it stop me from flying - no.

I want to smoke on a bus or train, does it stop from using them again no.

Funniest thing I seen for a while was being on the Irish ferry when the announcement come over the tannoy saying entering Irish waters please vacate to deck or estinguish your cig immediately.

I think it is a no win argument from a smokers perspective or a non smokers perspective and we will ultimately just have to conform or not go to the pubs or take the easy option and give up.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by carlingman

Pah typical united fan, when the going gets tough the tough get going.

HA! Sure you've got the right person? Think of a forum member who supports a successful premiership side and has plenty to say when that team is winning (or when their Mancunian rivals are losing) but when they have a bad run (like the last 2 months) they are curiously nowhere to be found.....remind you of anyone?

Anyway, back on topic now

I'm not saying I'm in favour of a ban (non smoker, never have, never will) although I wouldn't object to it. More choice would be my suggestion, with Assembly-funded incentives for non-smoking pubs.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Read more in to it? I couldn't read anything in to it! If I'm reading this correctly, the fact that you believe that the Irish are more pro-european is one of the reasons why you think that more bars and pubs will close in the UK than over there?

No...you couldn't have meant that, surely?

The Irish are very much pro European and have followed the lead from many other European states. The fact that the other member states have better weather and outdoor cafe's where smoking is allowed has less an affect on smokers over there. In Ireland i believe Guinness are blaming losses of sales on the smoking ban.

I'd say that's a fair assumption.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Shabba

The Irish are very much pro European

And what do you base that on? That they dropped the punt? Nothing to do with the punt being rubbish?

Originally Posted by Shabba

and have followed the lead from many other European states.

Examples?

Originally Posted by Shabba

In Ireland i believe Guinness are blaming losses of sales on the smoking ban.

First I've heard of that - in the 3 times I went to Ireland last year I never saw anything which suggested that.

Originally Posted by Shabba

I'd say that's a fair assumption.

I might agree with you if you can back it up.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Shabba

The Irish are very much pro European and have followed the lead from many other European states. The fact that the other member states have better weather and outdoor cafe's where smoking is allowed has less an affect on smokers over there. In Ireland i believe Guinness are blaming losses of sales on the smoking ban.

I'd say that's a fair assumption.

What other European states have banned smoking in pubs/bars then?

Originally Posted by Russ D

First I've heard of that - in the 3 times I went to Ireland last year I never saw anything which suggested that.



I might agree with you if you can back it up.

Post number 5 by Bifta.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Shabba

Post number 5 by Bifta.

I had a google for information about this supposed drop in sales of guinness and the articles I found have something in common with Bifta's post - they are all almost 2 years old. Nothing recent.

I can imagine there would have been some kind of impact on the leisure economy but once it's settled it would be interesting to see how things are now.

It's patently obvious that the non smokers aren't going to give an inch and neither am i. I will ressurect this post with photos of newly closed public houses/clubs in my area in a few months time.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Shabba

It's patently obvious that the non smokers aren't going to give an inch and neither am i. I will ressurect this post with photos of newly closed public houses/clubs in my area in a few months time.

OK fine - but bear in mind that I've said all along that I'm not in favour of a ban - all I'm doing is pointing out holes in either side of the argument, only tonight the pro-ban contingent seems to be water-tight.

[Gareth]

Diageo, the owners of Guinness, have recently announced interim financial results for the 6-month period ending Dec '05. You can get it here but to summarise, their profit before interest & tax (PBIT) was £1205M compared to £1002M for the previous year, ie an increase of £203M.

Their net sales rose by 7% year-on-year, which equates to £1.4Bn, of which there is an operating profit of £0.5Bn.

They've got free cash flow of £651M I'd say they're doing pretty well overall.

Like I said, It works in Ireland, the draw back is the millions of dog ends on the floor.

The public bins do have assh tray facilities built in, and seem to be emptied often (Can you see that happening in the UK?)

And I admit it is nice to have a night out and not come home smelling of smoke.


But I think the anti smoking lobby have taken things too far, by victimising smokers.....or let me rephrase that, victimising and hounding the drug addicts, people with a weakness they are making enemies. Prejudices against those who smoke need to be addressed, because if we smokers all give up, EVERYONES income tax and NI will go through the roof to cover the lost tax revenue.
The NHS bill might see a small drop from smoking related diseases, but hey lets remember even non smokers can die from lung cancer, heart disease etc.

Does anyone know what the gov revenue is on tobacco tax? Remember that all that will have to be covered when smokers are forced to quit.

As someone who now drinks little, I think we should address the helath issues surrounding alcohol, lets ban alcohol in pubs, clubs and restraunts, alcohol can torture and destroy the lives of miilions, and the effects it has on the human body have to be reolved by the NHS, Alcohol related disease is self inflicted and as such alcohol should be banned.

[Xaccers]

If memory serves, smokers actually bring in more tax than is spent on them, especially when you consider that they are more likely to die before drawing much of their pension!
You've also got to remember, if they don't die of smoking, they'll die of something else, and that costs the NHS too.
Using the NHS to quit smoking costs the NHS as well.
So, the more people who quit smoking, the less tax is given to the treasury, and the more tax is spent by the NHS.

TimeWarrior, interesting point about banning alcohol in pubs.
I don't drink alcohol.
I avoid pubs because of drunk people.
If pubs only served soft drinks, then they'd be opening themselves up to the market of people like me who avoid pubs because of drunks.
Unlike non-smokers, who can currently enjoy non-smoking areas of pubs, there are no non-drunks areas.
Drinkers will be able to enjoy booze at home, just like smokers after the ban, but with no booze in pubs/clubs/public places, there would be fewer drunken brawls, and it would save money on NHS and police costs too.

So if they're going to ban smoking in pubs, then why not ban alcohol in pubs too?