Relationships and religion - Page 8

peachey · 26-11-2003, 20:52

thing is you cannot criticise Israel or the jews now (not that I am doing so now)

if you do - you get accused of being anti-semitic and pro terrorist

which is simply not the case

fact is:
as long as the 'we are the chosen people' phrase remains in their mandate (and anyone dreaming up a religion would understandable have this clause built into their mandate) what hope is there for any sort of equality of anything

[Like life, I guess. You're good, kid, but as long as I'm around you're second best. You might as well learn to live with it.]

Bex · 26-11-2003, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

Fair comment but would you be willing to die for what you'd seen such as the apostles did? They saw what they saw and heard what they heard, as opposed to chinese whispers. I'll tell you if I was going to be tortured of killed for what I believe I'd had to be pretty certain of what I had in my mind!

that is a fair point russ....i wonder (and this isnt aimed at anyone or meant to question anyone) how many people would be willing to die for their beliefs

Russ · 26-11-2003, 20:56

Evening KA, not seen you on here for a few days

Escapee · 26-11-2003, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

Fair comment but would you be willing to die for what you'd seen such as the apostles did? They saw what they saw and heard what they heard, as opposed to chinese whispers. I'll tell you if I was going to be tortured of killed for what I believe I'd had to be pretty certain of what I had in my mind!

We could go around in circles though Russ with you just getting very annoyed at my views and comments.

I myself have no proof that the apostles died for their beliefs or actually existed. Ging along the routes of what peachy says do other religions aknowledge the apostles, and if not they must be no better than a non believer like me.

If we were all the same what a boring place it would be to live! :p

**Chris** · 26-11-2003, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee

My views are probably a bit strange when it comes to the bible!

I think IMHO that many of the stories were like a message going around the room that gets added to ie: John won ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£10 on the lottery and by the time it goes all the way around, John Won ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£10000 on the lottery.

I know I will probably get flamed for that comment, but perhaps Jesus did exist and was a very clever guy in those days (perhaps time travel) and he did some very clever things that got blown out of all proportion.
I think the big issue for a non-believer like myself is that I am a rational person who will not accept anything on face value until I can prove it.

believers say they can prove it to themselves, and often that makes them look like they are making excuses. I think we must all realise that no-on is ever going to convert someone like me because it would take a real big event to convince me about such matters. I am sorry to say that I only deal in facts and that statement should not mean believers should flame me or treat me any different in my opinion.

I'm not going to flame you for disagreeing with me! That would be just silly. All I can say about Jesus and his life is that other non-Biblical documents from the time record that people believed he did miracles, and very ancient scrolls exist that prove the Bible has not gradually changed over the last 2,000 years. What we have today is the same as what was written. Whether you believe that what was written is true is another matter!

Russ · 26-11-2003, 21:01

Indeed there's no proof....or is there? If other diaries were written within a hundred years or so of it all happening and reported stories of Jesus and what he did, would that help? Especially if the diaries and books had no axe to grind or interest in God/religion/worship etc?

Escapee · 26-11-2003, 21:32

Its all getting too deep for me.

**Chris** · 26-11-2003, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee

Its all getting too deep for me.

Don't worry, it got too deep for me years ago

peachey · 26-11-2003, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

Don't worry, it got too deep for me years ago

not with me it didn't

its basically a shizophrenic view of the world

ie

we are all equal, but some of us are sort of 'ghia' versions of humans it seems, and as long as you are prepared to pay the finance and tithes
you will be guaranteed a place in 'heaven'

[Like life, I guess. You're good, kid, but as long as I'm around you're second best. You might as well learn to live with it.]

Bifta · 26-11-2003, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by towny

How about raising someone from the dead after they'd been in a grave for more than 24 hours?

Scientific explanation again ... anyway Russ has answered my question more than satisfactorily so feel free to contain yourself.

Bifta · 26-11-2003, 22:28

So .. another question, I know I'm taking this topic off track a bit but I'm interested in (most) people's interpretations, can someone please explain to me a laymans terms what the "rapture" is all about? Imagine I'm a godless heathen (!) and explain it simply for me, ta.

**Chris** · 26-11-2003, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bifta

So .. another question, I know I'm taking this topic off track a bit but I'm interested in (most) people's interpretations, can someone please explain to me a laymans terms what the "rapture" is all about? Imagine I'm a godless heathen (!) and explain it simply for me, ta.

The idea is that the world is going completely to pot, and the only thing keeping it from being 100% bad is Christians who are (supposed to be) a restraining influence on the devil's activities.

The end of the world is to be preceded by a short period of time in which the devil is given more or less free reign to cause absolute havoc, in effect acting as God's agent for judgement on a rotten world. However for the devil to be able to do so much evil, the restraining factor (Christians) have to be removed from the equation. Hence, (so this particular interpretation of end-times prophecies goes), seven years before Armaggeddon, all dead Christians are physically resurrected into immortal, perfect bodies and meet Jesus 'in the air'; seconds later, all living Christians disappear from Earth, have their bodies similarly converted and also meet Jesus in the air. Chaos then ensues on Earth.

That's it in a nutshell, anyway.

Bifta · 26-11-2003, 22:48

Not wanting to make light of it or anything, but, for example I could be in the pub talking to somebody one minute and the next he'd just dissapear in front of my very eyes?

peachey · 26-11-2003, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bifta

So .. another question, I know I'm taking this topic off track a bit but I'm interested in (most) people's interpretations, can someone please explain to me a laymans terms what the "rapture" is all about? Imagine I'm a godless heathen (!) and explain it simply for me, ta.

what it it is your religious bods final step
into the maelstrom of insanity

that's what it is

..there I've said it

[Like life, I guess. You're good, kid, but as long as I'm around you're second best. You might as well learn to live with it.]

Bifta · 26-11-2003, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by peachey

what it it is your religious bods final step
into the maelstrom of insanity

that's what it is

..there I've said it

I don't suppose there's any danger of you ruining a different thread is there and letting others answer?