*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[obvious]

ntl have sent out letters and/or emails to heavy users in the past and they can tell more or less exactly how much any given user has downloaded but AFAIK this has involved some technical knoweldge rather than an idiot proof system being in place.

I know that a usage script (at ubr level) has been in place for a long time but rumour has it that the original decision by ntl to introduce the 1GB guideline was made when someone got the decimal point in the wrong place when calculating the percentage of 'leechers' and their effect on the network. So it's all been remarkably quiet on the capping front over the last two years as the data they based their original decision on was wrong and indicated a much larger problem than there actually was.

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by Paul M

If you say so.

Assuming you were correct, and they really had this technology installed and working four years ago, do you not think they would have been using it to impose their caps ?

ntl techs may have the ability to interrogate routers, switches, ubr's and even CM's to get raw data flow rates, but this is not the same as monitoring each persons real usage and providing a means for them to see this information, and take action based on it (either the customer or ntl).

Not too sure as to why they have not been using it to its maximum potential.

At the time I was there it was only the Senior and Team Leaders etc that had access to this and it was at that time mainly used to verify with customer services that a particular user had been without sevice and not been using a connection.

Also we used it for providing stats to AUP in cases for people hammering their connection as at this time there was no official cap as the service had just launched.

The data it gave would be ideal for the cap monitoring know as it can be configured to show a graph showing upload / download amounts in 30min/hourly/daily/weekly/monthly splits and also will show the time the modem was switched on and off etc and connection times and lengths.

Cracking bit of kit they have had for 4 or 5 years but never at the time used to its full potential.

I personally think even with or without these tools the CAP is just as there as a threat as it will serve no real purpose as if and a "big" if someone actually does get dropped back to dial up speeds for abuse then they will either curb their usuage habits or change providers.

[DJ Flux]

I have been a customer with NTL for 3 years now, I have always supported NTL with there prices and there special packages. Until I received a shock about NTL capping there broadband. In my household I have 5 computers connected to the net on a network. 3 computers are mine for my music productions and website and graphic developement. My wife has a laptop always online like myself. My daughter has a computer. I am really shocked at NTL for this capping. If I understand right with NTL they nearly went bankrupt, now they changed things with these special packages at the right price, them loosing money is not our fault. Also there excuse on other broadband users may have difficulties in using there broadband due to people like me and my household who are constantly online doing what we have paid for in the service. I even wanted to move to telewest 4 months ago but i found out i could not as they were not in my area even tho NTL owns Telewest... I found out from my website host that they do broadband connections with free migration but u need a bt line. but they are fast and still unlimited. Also I know BT are very strict too and do not always allow u to come onboard with BT if u have no credit history. but I will be doing this, I will be moving to www.fasthosts.co.uk if NTL don't pull their fingers out of there backside. The reason we all use NTL is there value for money and packages.... I am sure there will be a major percentage of customers they will loose and BT will gain those percentages for the BT lines to get other isp's thru BT lines.... Also think about this where will our DATA PROTECT ACT be dropped or changed since all this is really aiming at the the people who use p2p file sharing programs. Myself & the family have been discussing this situation of NTL for a week now & starting to think what we should do if this effects us in using over 1GB per day... But we will use www.fasthosts.co.uk cause they are a favourite for me on webhosting so I am sure there broadband has an excellent 24/7 service too. I am sorry if some disagree with me, but NTL was is still atm a free care enviroment with no spying from the isp's.......

One more thing we could move to sweden hehehehe May NTL rest in peace if they stick to this capping even when its brought up in House of Commons...

Now this 3MB upgrade from NTL is tempting but will I be penalized heavily for using over 1GB per day as me & my household computer are online constantly 90% of the time....

Originally Posted by DJ Flux

In my household I have 5 computers connected to the net on a network. 3 computers are mine for my music productions and website and graphic developement. My wife has a laptop always online like myself. My daughter has a computer.

Are you saying you use it to run a business then ?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by DJ Flux

<snip>. Also think about this where will our DATA PROTECT ACT be dropped or changed since all this is really aiming at the the people who use p2p file sharing programs. <snip>

Exactly what has the DPA got to do with this? Assuming NTL can track the amount of data you download (and I have been assured by people in a position to know that the UBRs can do this), they would not need to look at the data itself. After all, assuming they enforce a hard cap and you go over your 1 Gig a day, then whatever restrictions NTL are planning to impose will come into effect whether what you downloaded was legal or not.

BTW, it's also relatively easy to detect P2P program use ,fairly accurately, without analysing the data. I don't think TCP/IP packet headers are covered by the DPA.

[Rone]

I remember ringing CS about the maximum number of pc's on 1 connection. I think it was 3, which suited me for me and the 2 kids at the time.
Is over 3 against the T+C ?
Coz that was the impression i was given.

[AL123]

Originally Posted by Rone

I remember ringing CS about the maximum number of pc's on 1 connection. I think it was 3, which suited me for me and the 2 kids at the time.
Is over 3 against the T+C ?
Coz that was the impression i was given.

Well they made no mention of this when i told them i intended to set up a network. We live in a shared student house and at one point had 4 connected, until one guys computer broke. Even with three i'm sure we go over the limit regualrly. NTL market to and give discounts to students, and alot of the houses will have more than 3 people accessing the internet. pehaps NTL make some allowance for this?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by AL123

Well they made no mention of this when i told them i intended to set up a network. We live in a shared student house and at one point had 4 connected, until one guys computer broke. Even with three i'm sure we go over the limit regualrly. NTL market to and give discounts to students, and alot of the houses will have more than 3 people accessing the internet. pehaps NTL make some allowance for this?

No, they don't. It states in the T&Cs about not having any more than 3 PCs on the connection. Unless you stated that your network was going to have 4 Pcs on it, I don't think it's unreasonable that it wasn't mentioned. If ntl reps had to go through the T&Cs with every new customer, the callo queues would be ten times as bad as they are now.

[AL123]

Originally Posted by orangebird

No, they don't. It states in the T&Cs about not having any more than 3 PCs on the connection. Unless you stated that your network was going to have 4 Pcs on it, I don't think it's unreasonable that it wasn't mentioned. If ntl reps had to go through the T&Cs with every new customer, the callo queues would be ten times as bad as they are now.

meh i can't remember what number i gave them, but i was just illustrating that in the case of student houses there will be numerous places which don't stick to these rules IMO, therefore we can assume that NTL don't rigidly inforce this. Generally to me knowledge NTL have been quite nice to their customers in terms of useage and emforcment of T&Cs. Like anything with NTL it depends who you speak to in my experience, luckily i have spoken to the right people for the problems we've had. I agree they can't go through them all but when someone mentions "do they provide/ allow any network equipment" they should probably be told.

Can't say i've ever read all the T&C's myself, i guess most people are also totally unaware of this condition.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by AL123

Well they made no mention of this when i told them i intended to set up a network. We live in a shared student house and at one point had 4 connected, until one guys computer broke. Even with three i'm sure we go over the limit regualrly. NTL market to and give discounts to students, and alot of the houses will have more than 3 people accessing the internet. pehaps NTL make some allowance for this?

Hi and to cableforum

Why should the number of people sharing a single connection have any bearing on the bandwidth allowance? It's a bit like saying that you want a bigger allowance because you can't do what you want to do within the set allowance.

[AL123]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

Hi and to cableforum

Why should the number of people sharing a single connection have any bearing on the bandwidth allowance? It's a bit like saying that you want a bigger allowance because you can't do what you want to do within the set allowance.

Cheers for the welcome , looking at what i said i didn't express myself quite aswell as i meant to, I just meant that when you market to certain target groups you should take into account their situation i.e. students are likely these days to have a computer each, if anything students should be paying more for higher useage LOL not getting a discount i mean the biggest student houses where i am have 6-10 people in them!. The main point though is that these days its hard to do a course without a computer and internet access, so limiting it to 3 computers per connection seems a little illogical to me for the NTL student offer. Though there is no sign of them inforcing this afaik, so for the moment i guess like caps it isn't really an issue.

[Rone]

Originally Posted by AL123

Though there is no sign of them inforcing this afaik, so for the moment i guess like caps it isn't really an issue.

I wouldnt take that as a certainty, if there's obviously lots of you doing a fair bit on the net, and your affecting those in close proximity that dont, the new terms and conditions might see you come under the microscope.
Dunno if its like speed cameras and you can say "it wasnt me, someone else was driving".
Or in this case d\loading, but i would'nt count on that.

[AL123]

Originally Posted by Rone

I wouldnt take that as a certainty, if there's obviously lots of you doing a fair bit on the net, and your affecting those in close proximity that dont, the new terms and conditions might see you come under the microscope.
Dunno if its like speed cameras and you can say "it wasnt me, someone else was driving".
Or in this case d\loading, but i would'nt count on that.

well personally if i was contacted by NTL over usesage which i guess is what you are saying, there would be one way to cut useage our dramatically.... ban all the bittorent do ports .For sure larger houses would go over the 1gig a day quite easily. I am a bit more responsible myself and only do heavy downloading/ uploading at night, i'm a member of a car site and do a fair bit of both but i try and impact on my friends on the network as little as possible and I guess other nearby NTL customers aswell. Not sure how the contention works on cable though.

[Fuzz]

Just A Quick Question AL123. How Do You Get The Student Rates?

Have You Got A Link Or Something As My Sisters At Uni But We're Paying Full Wack At The Moment.

Thanks.

[stuG]

Personally, I think NTL have it all wrong....

Why cap download ... capping upload is much more fun...

This will do 2 things maybe even more...

1. reduce the stress on the bandwidth (as some of you may know if you upload on ntl your download will decrease not by the amount but by a greater amount than that..

1a. it will present ntl with the envious task of being able to prove to the anti-warez lobbies (mpaa/riaa/god/etc) that they are doing something to limit users of these services. By highlighting the ppl that constantly upload this will enable them to look more interestingly at those customers using there service, and discuss if neccessary how to moderate there bandwidth (or make them aware they are a botnet drone for some virus maker somewhere)

1b. I know ignition has mentioned Optimum Online waaay back in the thread, they adopted this kind of policy. My friend at the time was living there and had OO, he thought it was great very fast when you needed it but if you upload past your level (3 hrs @ full upload) it capped, he know but once he phoned and they checked for kazaa running (and possibly others). Now if NTL adopted this wouldn't most peoples issues in here disappear.

2. The main result is to stop the power users from becoming power abusers, but are we talking really about download or upload, the type of heavy user ntl do not want is the kazaa kiddies. Well if you could do the upload cap policy instead of download then I think this will address most of the issue. After so much of uploading at say 20Kb's (256k upload for 3 hours) your capped/monitored whatever.

Perhaps this is something for folks to critisise, flame or champion..