General : FAQ on Virgin Media's WiFi Sharing

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by adduxi

Don't think I would ever use this either, and as for the TV, there are days I don't even turn it on ....

I don't think I would every use Sky TV but that doesn't mean it isn't extremely popular among the rest of the populace.

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by adduxi

Don't think I would ever use this either, and as for the TV, there are days I don't even turn it on ....
Then again, I'm an old fart who still reads the Radio Times and can separate my phone from my hand
I've even been known to read paper books .........

Indeed, the point is... each to their own. Virgin has to make a service that's appealing to as many people as possible, so obviously some aspects are going to be unused by some people.

To put it another way - how many of you used the free F-secure license? Or (dread to think) ever used Virgin Media security. Or the cloud backup stuff. Or the photo printing service.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

In reality it's closer to 1%

Really? I find it very surprising that's its only 1% in modem mode. There must be lots with SH1's and they can't surely be trying to use it as a router ? Do VM actually know how many are in modem mode, or don't they know?

I'm guessing then, reading between the lines, that VM aren't going to boot you off modem mode, but you'll be unable to share your connection with it. However it sounds as though you'll still be able to blag other peoples connections if you don't opt out in MyVM. If so, guess VM wouldn't want this to be widely known. However would be good to get this confirmed ? Ben ?

This is rapidly becoming an Frequently Unanswered Questions thread rather than a FAQ one...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

In reality it's closer to 1%.

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

Fact or your opinion? What would the source be if fact?

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Really? I find it very surprising that's its only 1% in modem mode. There must be lots with SH1's and they can't surely be trying to use it as a router ? Do VM actually know how many are in modem mode, or don't they know?

You overestimate the level of technical knowledge and "give-a-damn"-ness of the general public.

However it sounds as though you'll still be able to blag other peoples connections if you don't opt out in MyVM. If so, guess VM wouldn't want this to be widely known.

It's really not going to make enough of an impact on VM's bottom line for any of the paper pushers to care. After all BT's similar service that's been running much longer has far wider impact and coverage as well as a commercial option to purchase access and they've never given a damn.

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

I don't think I would ever use Sky TV

how else are you going to watch Judge Judy?

[Springy]

My only worry so far is security. As you have two connection on the same router they have to make sure that it will be impossible for one user to access the other connection.

As it is the same hardware, if there is a security issue discovered with the firmware a hacker could gain access to your own connections and snoop around.

Because of this I will opt out for now until everything is stable.

In an ideal world, Virgin should give us a new router that is actually two separate hardware so even if it is exploitable, as they are not physically connected it does not matter if the public hardware is compromised.

[Sephiroth]

If there was a security issue with the firmware, a hacker wouldn't need to log onto the separate service flow to access your private service flow, which can be directly hacked then.

[General Maximus]

knowing what a half assed job VM do with firmware and how they love to rush it out it wouldn't surprise me at all if somebody was able to find a vulnerability within a week. I will laugh my ass off when it happens and quote

"How does it work?
We’ll switch on a separate internet connection to your Super Hub, which will become part of the WiFi network. But don’t worry, the broadband you love and pay for will stay exclusively yours – and remain just as secure."

[Kushan]

Actually I'd be surprised if there was such a vulnerability. It's relatively trivial to completely separate two networks, the hard bit (that's prone to error) is when you try to create secure bridges between them.

It sounds as though there's two completely separate service flows live on the UBR for each hub, there's nowhere to "Cross over" except deep inside Virgin's network and that would have much, much bigger consequences.

Or, as alluded above, they'd have to find some kind of exploit in the hub's firmware that allows them to access say the WPA information of the home network - again, that would have bigger consequences and Virgin can push out a security update fairly quickly. The fact that updates are so rare says quite a lot about the security of the hub.

[Springy]

I was thinking more about exploiting the firmware whilst connected in the router.

I don't know if this is possible, but if you do manage to find an exploit like a buffer overflow, you can potentially get into the memory of the router and see anything that is on RAM... that is what I am worried about, not really getting the WPA info but actually accessing the main memory unit.

[DaMac]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Well, unfortunately Virgin has several million customers, many of which will make great use of the service.

It's also a pretty efficient way to increase monetisation of their network - A software update - no doubt Virgin's wifi sharing will become part of a bigger wireless network that Virgin can charge 3rd parties access for.

It's shame that you won't personally find it useful, but I wager you also don't watch every single TV channel that comes through your box.

Yes but at least when I'm not watching them I'm not eating extra electricity whilst somebody else streams them from my set top box, has anyone costed what the extra running costs of a shub2 that is running as a hot spot?

---------- Post added at 08:21 ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 ----------

Also I think the assertion that this won't cause extra traffic or congestion is ludicrous, you can't say the person that is lodging on your wi-Fi is creating extra traffic because they arnt at home using their own, what is actually happening is they are using VM instead of their 3G connections so the network traffic at peak times could considerably increase.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

If there was a security issue with the firmware, a hacker wouldn't need to log onto the separate service flow to access your private service flow, which can be directly hacked then.

SH2 uses miniUPnP from here

http://miniupnp.free.fr/

which has been found to be vulnerable. Has this been kept uptodate by VM?
I do not know. Last time I checked (6 months ago it was not) - one can turn SH2 to a switch, it changes its name to miniUPnP

Can one use ARP poisoning? Again, I do not know ....

Once you login to SH using a public login (as I said there are public BT password lists, VM lists will soon be available too) perhaps one can try...

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Springy

In an ideal world, Virgin should give us a new router that is actually two separate hardware so even if it is exploitable, as they are not physically connected it does not matter if the public hardware is compromised.

Except all VM customers are "physically connected" to the same network in the end anyway, all that'll do is create a false sense of security (and double the amount of equipment to maintain)

---------- Post added at 11:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Kushan

Actually I'd be surprised if there was such a vulnerability. It's relatively trivial to completely separate two networks, the hard bit (that's prone to error) is when you try to create secure bridges between them.

I wonder if the Superhub will set up per-client L2TP tunnels to some VM server somewhere so all the access control can be done at the far end.

[007stuart]

My SH2AC cant even transmit to the end of my garden both front and back so unless VM are going to boost my signal this looks like waste of time and effort.