'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated

[orangebird]

'You don't need religion to have morals. If you can't determine right from wrong, you lack empathy, not religion.' - Not my saying, but pretty much fits my opinion on the topic.

I agree absolutely that schools, especially state funded, should remain secular. As for the schools referred to in the OP, from my own POV, now living in a muslim country, it's dangerous to allow it to go on if the concerns are proved to be true.

---------- Post added at 01:25 ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

If you think that's what happens in a C of E or RC school, you are very much mistaken. RE classes in those schools take place just as everywhere else. The difference is, the foundation of the ethos of such a school is, explicitly, the way of life set out in the New Testament and upheld by their denomination of the Christian Church.

Again, you seem to believe that absence of religious belief is a neutral position, and therefore preferable. It is not.

In your opinion.....

[Russ]

Again, religious education is not religious enforcement.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Russ

Again, religious education is not religious enforcement.

It is in Islam Russ. Believe me. What you think is fundamentalist or extreme here is pretty standard in KSA.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I don't know Gary, there's some solace to be taken knowing that you helped someone in a wheelchair gain some traction or stopped someone slipping over, less solace in providing dinner for a hungry worm though admittedly.

---------- Post added at 08:19 ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

Again, religious education is not religious enforcement.

It was in my school, i was forced to attend RE classes and were forced to attend the morning prayers in the hall. When i was in the forces we were forced to do church parade. Since then i only attend churches ether to see the architecture because it interests me and is something i did whilst in Malta or if its a funeral, wedding or christening. It was that forced in your face attitude when i was younger that made me decide not to have anything to do with it.

[rhyds]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...hristi-6991546

A faith school has reneged on its decision to appoint a new headteacher for unforeseen “marital reasons”.

No, there's no religious enforcement in RC schools...

How is this different to Muslim faith schools requiring non muslim female teachers to wear headscarves? And how can it still be legal to disbar someone from a job because of their marital status?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by orangebird

It is in Islam Russ. Believe me. What you think is fundamentalist or extreme here is pretty standard in KSA.

True in some areas of Islam it can be. The thing is we don't often hear enough for the more moderate areas.

Originally Posted by Sirius

It was in my school, i was forced to attend RE classes and were forced to attend the morning prayers in the hall. When i was in the forces we were forced to do church parade. Since then i only attend churches ether to see the architecture because it interests me which is something i did whilst in Malta or if its a funeral, wedding or christening.

I can't comment on the forces as I know little-to-nothing about it but as this is about schools, being 'forced' to attend RE classes doesn't sound as bad when you consider the fact kids are 'forced' to attend all lessons surely? If part of a school's attendance requirement is to be part of an assembly then that would be something all parents would be aware of.

I'll stress this again - religious education does not equate to religious enforcement. Some humanists, secularists (sp?), atheists, anti-religionists etc feel that willing participation in anything connected to religion makes them somehow 'validate' it. Not so.

I went to a Catholic primary and secondary school, in fact the only one in my areas for about 15 miles so they pretty much had a 'monopoly' on it. It was considered a fairly prestigious school to get in to as a result. We had a number of non-Catholics attending, even some from atheist backgrounds. It was part of the school's requirement that all pupils attend assembly but that's all it was. Nobody was forced to sing, pray or anything.

Naturally we had RE. At no point was it ever enforced on us that THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST BELIEVE!!!. We were taught about all religions. Neither were we told "Ok this is Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc but never mind their rubbish, concentrate on the Bible". We had the conventional science classes (Physics, Biology, Chemistry) too.

If there are schools that put their own faith in place of others in lessons then I cannot see how they'd make up anywhere near a significant number. I'm sure this may well have occurred in the past however we are living in times where secularism and indeed other faiths are more widespread and schools would be adjusting to reflect this.

As for keeping any aspect of religion out of schools, I'm sure even the most ardent New Atheist would agree that's a step too far and smacks of double standards. Religion plays far too big a role in the world today (and indeed history) for it to be ignored. There is a LOT of religious misunderstanding and ignorance (I mean that in terms of 'lack of awareness') today and learning about it - which does not mean agreeing with or accepting it - will benefit both atheists and religious types together.

---------- Post added at 08:42 ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 ----------

Originally Posted by rhyds

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...hristi-6991546

No, there's no religious enforcement in RC schools...

How is this different to Muslim faith schools requiring non muslim female teachers to wear headscarves? And how can it still be legal to disbar someone from a job because of their marital status?

Of course, you're going to want to wait to know the full facts about that before making up your mind right?

If a school has a particular ethos, surely it would make sense for those in authority to be setting an example. We don't know what these 'reasons' were but if a headteacher of a Catholic school was seen to be living in a manner that was contrary to to what the school teaches then I'm sure people would be queuing up to call him/her a hypocrite.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Russ

True in some areas of Islam it can be. The thing is we don't often hear enough for the more moderate areas.



I can't comment on the forces as I know little-to-nothing about it but as this is about schools, being 'forced' to attend RE classes doesn't sound as bad when you consider the fact kids are 'forced' to attend all lessons surely? If part of a school's attendance requirement is to be part of an assembly then that would be something all parents would be aware of.

I'll stress this again - religious education does not equate to religious enforcement. Some humanists, secularists (sp?), atheists, anti-religionists etc feel that willing participation in anything connected to religion makes them somehow 'validate' it. Not so.

I went to a Catholic primary and secondary school, in fact the only one in my areas for about 15 miles so they pretty much had a 'monopoly' on it. It was considered a fairly prestigious school to get in to as a result. We had a number of non-Catholics attending, even some from atheist backgrounds. It was part of the school's requirement that all pupils attend assembly but that's all it was. Nobody was forced to sing, pray or anything.

Naturally we had RE. At no point was it ever enforced on us that THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST BELIEVE!!!. We were taught about all religions. Neither were we told "Ok this is Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc but never mind their rubbish, concentrate on the Bible". We had the conventional science classes (Physics, Biology, Chemistry) too.

If there are schools that put their own faith in place of others in lessons then I cannot see how they'd make up anywhere near a significant number. I'm sure this may well have occurred in the past however we are living in times where secularism and indeed other faiths are more widespread and schools would be adjusting to reflect this.

As for keeping any aspect of religion out of schools, I'm sure even the most ardent New Atheist would agree that's a step too far and smacks of double standards. Religion plays far too big a role in the world today (and indeed history) for it to be ignored. There is a LOT of religious misunderstanding and ignorance (I mean that in terms of 'lack of awareness') today and learning about it - which does not mean agreeing with or accepting it - will benefit both atheists and religious types together.

---------- Post added at 08:42 ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 ----------



Of course, you're going to want to wait to know the full facts about that before making up your mind right?

If a school has a particular ethos, surely it would make sense for those in authority to be setting an example. We don't know what these 'reasons' were but if a headteacher of a Catholic school was seen to be living in a manner that was contrary to to what the school teaches then I'm sure people would be queuing up to call him/her a hypocrite.

Why have prayers at assembly if its just to announce school events and awards ?. As for this investigation it will be a wait and see situation.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Why have prayers at assembly if its just to announce school events and awards. ?

You're asking why religious-based schools would have prayers?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Russ

If a school has a particular ethos, surely it would make sense for those in authority to be setting an example. We don't know what these 'reasons' were but if a headteacher of a Catholic school was seen to be living in a manner that was contrary to to what the school teaches then I'm sure people would be queuing up to call him/her a hypocrite.

In theory a state school is not permitted to use religion as a criteria when selecting at very least teaching staff. The interviewer is not permitted to ask the interviewee what, if any, religion they adhere to.

Unsure if this applies to private schools also, I would presume it does as employment law remains the same.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Russ

You're asking why religious-based schools would have prayers?

I was always of the opinion that schools are there to educate so why have prayers at assembly what is the point of prayers at assembly ?

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I was always of the opinion that schools are there to educate so why have prayers at assembly what is the point of prayers at assembly ?

IIRC all schools are required to have an act of worship during the week for all pupils, which is total nonsense.

[Osem]

I'd be happier of our schools turned out more people who could read, write and add up to a satisfactory standard. People can practice whatever religion they want in their own time.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by rhyds

IIRC all schools are required to have an act of worship during the week for all pupils, which is total nonsense.

If you look at it that way. they're required to worship.

"If I have to. I want to worship Allah"

"We don't do Allah here. you're white. you will worship the white God"

[Gary L]

That's how hypocritical the system is.

they won't let you worship Satan. they don't do Satan.

[orangebird]

KSA (where I now live), is the home of Islam. And believe me, those in charge are very fundamental and their beliefs are very extreme. Islam is NOT a moderate religion. If you get 'moderate' muslims, it's because they CBA to do all that the Quran says. It's hard for me to describe how scary this actually is. My husband once said to me that muslims will take over the world. I laughed at this and told him to sod off. However, I find this possibility now very real, maybe not in mine, my children's or grandchildrens' lifetime (thank goodness). But it will happen. They're the only ones tenacious enough frankly. The UK needs to put a thumb on this now.

---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

That's how hypocritical the system is.

they won't let you worship Satan. they don't do Satan.

No, but they'll take you to court for practising black magic. Especially if you're Ethiopian.