Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Russ

Lefty and PC types may be happy to deny this but we do all judge on appearances - it's a human trait seeing as we're hunters and sight is our primary sense. The difference of course is when someone is judged negatively on their appearance. But even then that's not such a bad thing necessarily. If I see a gang of chavs on a street corner and I need to walk past them I'm going to be quietly on my guard - that's self preservation.

I've seen many posts like this on forums, but "chavs" is sometimes replaced with other words, including "blacks".

What are "PC types"? People who support political correctness? Something that has caused people to be more considerate of others? Yeah, what a terrible thing that is. Cue examples of "political correctness gone mad!", lol.

Originally Posted by Russ

My point is whereas we should aim for true equality, I think human nature dictates that will never happen.

The reason for prejudice is not human nature. It's largely propagated via fear-mongering from the mass media and government, as well as things being considered societal norms of the time. There is nothing innate that makes a person paranoid of a group of teenagers on the street if they're wearing particular clothing, in fact, that is wholly irrational.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Sigma

I've seen many posts like this on forums, but "chavs" is sometimes replaced with other words, including "blacks".

Not on here it's not.

Originally Posted by Sigma

What are "PC types"? People who support political correctness?

No, people who take it to extremes. I remember a good few years back when Robert Kilroy-Silk had his chat show and they were discussing some sort of race-related issue and there was a very loud and opinionated "lefty" woman who had to have something to say about everything. In principle her suggestions and notions weren't bad - she was anti-racism but she became more and more ridiculous, culminating at one point where the black guy sitting next to her spoke up about peoples' initial reactions to him in the street "...as a black man". When RK-S turned to her for an opinion she turned to the guy and said "Well I didn't even realise you were black".

There was a member on here once called "HatedByTheMail", he used to stumble over himself trying to show how PC he was, and one time some topic turned to 'chavs' and wanting to show how 'totally' non-judgemental and anti-labelling he was, when asked what he though of chavs he replied "I honestly don't know what that word means".

Originally Posted by Sigma

Something that has caused people to be more considerate of others? Yeah, what a terrible thing that is. Cue examples of "political correctness gone mad!", lol.

Quite.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Russ

Not on here it's not.

Only because the forum rules dictate otherwise and because saying "I would cross the street because of a group of chavs" is a socially acceptable thing to say. If you think it's because nobody here is thinking it, you're naive.

Originally Posted by Russ

No, people who take it to extremes. I remember a good few years back when Robert Kilroy-Silk had his chat show and they were discussing some sort of race-related issue and there was a very loud and opinionated "lefty" woman who had to have something to say about everything. In principle her suggestions and notions weren't bad - she was anti-racism but she became more and more ridiculous, culminating at one point where the black guy sitting next to her spoke up about peoples' initial reactions to him in the street "...as a black man". When RK-S turned to her for an opinion she turned to the guy and said "Well I didn't even realise you were black".

There was a member on here once called "HatedByTheMail", he used to stumble over himself trying to show how PC he was, and one time some topic turned to 'chavs' and wanting to show how 'totally' non-judgemental and anti-labelling he was, when asked what he though of chavs he replied "I honestly don't know what that word means".



Quite.

I'm not sure what the above is. Is it a rebuttal to anything I said?

I think you're cherry picking to deliberately misrepresent what being "PC" is. Political correctness is a good thing. Most people who are "anti-PC" are just people who are upset that their prejudices are no longer socially acceptable.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Sigma

Only because the forum rules dictate otherwise and because saying "I would cross the street because of a group of chavs" is a socially acceptable thing to say. If you think it's because nobody here is thinking it, you're naive.

You made the reference to other forums.

Originally Posted by Sigma

I'm not sure what the above is. Is it a rebuttal to anything I said?

You asked what "PC types" were.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Russ

You made the reference to other forums.

You asked what "PC types" were.

Again, these are not rebuttals or discussion points. They are simply statements that say "you did X and Y". They would be useful if my memory was as long as that of a goldfish.

But I would wholly disagree with your definition of "PC types" being "people who take it to extremes". That's simply cherry picking so you can continue you to attack all "PC types" and a general "lefty" point of view, without which, Alan Turing would not have been honoured BTW.

[Russ]

OK I'm confused. You asked a question, I gave my answer. Are we not reading the same forum?

One of the benefits of a democracy is you have the absolute right to disagree with my definition however I stand by it.

I do need to correct you though, I am not attacking political correctness. Just when it is applied with overzealousness. I'm guessing you're trying to pigeon-hole me as someone unhappy at having prejudices being blocked. If so nothing could be further from the truth.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Russ

OK I'm confused. You asked a question, I gave my answer. Are we not reading the same forum?

You didn't answer my question though, even if you believe that you did.

Originally Posted by Russ

One of the benefits of a democracy is you have the absolute right to disagree with my definition however I stand by it.

You can stand by an incorrect definition if that suits your stance, but it only makes what you say even more transparent.

Originally Posted by Russ

I do need to correct you though, I am not attacking political correctness. Just when it is applied with overzealousness.

Except you used the terms "lefty" and "PC types". I'm a little confused as to whether you see all "lefties" and "PC types" as extremists, which is demonstrably false, or whether you were just unclear in the point you were making.

[Russ]

(Sigh)

This is getting tedious now. I'm sorry if the answer I gave did not follow how you wanted me to reply but answer it I did.

Just because I said something that you disagree with does not make me "wrong" any more than it make you "right". That's circular reasoning: "I'm right because I say I am".

As far as I know there are no universal definitions of "lefty" or "PC types". You asked for MY definition and I gave it. That you disagree with it is your right but again does not automatically make me "wrong" other than in your opinion.

There is a difference between being politically correct (most of the time a good thing) and being a "PC type".

Hope this finally clarifies the point I've been making.

[Sigma]

No, I was saying that you didn't answer my question at all, not that the answer you gave was "wrong".

As for PC types, given some of the other posts I've read on here from you, I think I'm having a discussion with the intellectual equivalent of a hamster rolling about in one of those little plastic balls, not quite sure of its aim, unable to express its point, but carrying on regardless. Have fun with that.

[Russ]

Resorting to insults....

[Hom3r]

There was a thing about Turing on QI XIL

There was a large section devoted to Alan Turing in the BBC show QI XL (series I episode 13, broadcast Dec 2 2011), which features Stephen Fry and a panel of guests answering difficult but interesting questions. The theme of the recent show was "intelligence."

During this there was a question on Enigma which was used as a lead into Alan Turing. Stephen Fry brought up the subject of Apple's logo (an Apple with a bite out of it) allegedly being in honour of Alan Turing, who died after purposefully eating an apple poisoned with cyanide.

Stephen Fry recalls asking Steve Jobs (they were friends) if the rumours were true. Jobs replied, “It isn't true, but God we wish it were!” So finally and officially, right from the horses mouth as it were, this rumour is debunked. However, there is no harm in remembering Turing when you look at Apple's logo.