Young lad dies, after refusing blood

Originally Posted by Angua

Or f you take the view of Nietzsche - improving the gene pool as he will not now have children & carry on the JW belief.

I don't know if it is still true, but is there not a system of shinning/excluding those who leave the JWs or go against their rules. This aspect of a religion always struck me as very unfair on the young who may not have had any choice in the matter.

yes there is . They work on the principle of poor associations lead to bad habit or in other words one bad apple can turn the whole barrel. I am not disfellowshipped for not practicing

---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:58 ----------

Originally Posted by defirish

Are they against taking plasma as well because isn't that a sub instead of gettiing blood that can save the persons life

they can take substitutes

[Sasha222]

Cant understand so why a subsitute was not offered or was it. It's at such a young age he had to die because of his parents beliefs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/ma...od-transfusion here is some actual information on the case

[Sasha222]

Thanks for the links Zing. That is so sad to think with just given the blood he needed his life could have been saved and the parents would now have there son but if that is that there belief and they are happy to go along with that then I suppose thats it.

Why dont they accept blood anyway.

Originally Posted by defirish

Thanks for the links Zing. That is so sad to think with just given the blood he needed his life could have been saved and the parents would now have there son but if that is that there belief and they are happy to go along with that then I suppose thats it.

Why dont they accept blood anyway.

because the bible says life blood should be returned to the ground.It is a very serious issue for JWs

I do actually also believe blood is a very important issue for the Jewish faith also although I do not know if they refuse blood transfusions

[Sasha222]

Weird but each to there own I suppose

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by zing

because the bible says.....

Therein lies the problem.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Angua

Or f you take the view of Nietzsche - improving the gene pool as he will not now have children & carry on the JW belief.

I don't know if it is still true, but is there not a system of shinning/excluding those who leave the JWs or go against their rules. This aspect of a religion always struck me as very unfair on the young who may not have had any choice in the matter.

disfeloshiping only occurs rarely and only applies to the one it is done to so thier children partner should not be affected and only applies to talking about the faith and or worship with that person

( and i cant remember any one being disfeloshiped for taking blood )

so even if a person is disfeloshiped this doesn't mean you would ignore them or not work with them

how family members or close friends of them treat them though will vary depending on many factors such as what the offense was to how close or how they looked up to them etc

if though you are talking about a child being disfeloshiped ( which again in my experiance is extreamly rare ( i my self am not in favour of even baptizing those under the age of consent to marriage anyway ) but of the one case i can remember which i think made it to papers years back the other children had already stopped talking to the other child long before because of the attitude of the child ( she went off and took drugs and led quite a wild life before coming back and being welcomed back several years later

but none of those children were told not to talk to or acknowledge her only not to discuss bible topics with her

[PeteLockwood]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Therein lies the problem.

exactly, people still living in the stone age...

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by speedfreak

Xaccers the speeding analogy was a good one to the point raised, whenever you speed with your family in the car you are putting them in more danger, theres no argument against that, Citroen suspension or not

Except Arthur didn't say he wouldn't put his family in danger at all.
He said (suprisingly coherant and sensible for a change)

but l would never put my wife and family in danger, through a church cult such as this

It fits so badly that zing had to selectively reference what Arthur said, although selectively referencing facts is a JW tactic so we shouldn't be that suprised I suppose.

Originally Posted by rogermevans

disfeloshiping only occurs rarely and only applies to the one it is done to so thier children partner should not be affected and only applies to talking about the faith and or worship with that person

I knew a JW who was excumunicated for a year becuase she was seduced at the age of 15 by the 17 year old son of one of the Elders. She felt so guilty for having premarital sex she broke down and confessed to her mum (who became a JW because when her daugher was a few months old, left her on the kitchen worktop which she fell off, and felt she needed to spend the rest of her life thanking god for her daughter not dying). Meanwhile, when it all came out the Elder moved his family to France and continued being an Elder there.

[speedfreak]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Except Arthur didn't say he wouldn't put his family in danger at all.
He said (suprisingly coherant and sensible for a change)

Indeed, I misread the speeding thing. Damn it just when I think Ive proved my point you pull that one out of the hat

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Except Arthur didn't say he wouldn't put his family in danger at all.
He said (suprisingly coherant and sensible for a change)


It fits so badly that zing had to selectively reference what Arthur said, although selectively referencing facts is a JW tactic so we shouldn't be that suprised I suppose.




I knew a JW who was excumunicated for a year becuase she was seduced at the age of 15 by the 17 year old son of one of the Elders. She felt so guilty for having premarital sex she broke down and confessed to her mum (who became a JW because when her daugher was a few months old, left her on the kitchen worktop which she fell off, and felt she needed to spend the rest of her life thanking god for her daughter not dying). Meanwhile, when it all came out the Elder moved his family to France and continued being an Elder there.

TUT TUT dude on resorting to such measures against me

You talk as if you know what you are on about but you clearly do not

The JWs for one do not excommunicated anyone its disfellowshipped and if you had any sort of real idea you would know that

I misunderstood what Arther put I realise now he would would expose his family to dangers of the JWs however that could be seen to mean he would expose him family to risks in other ways hmmmm ....

[Hom3r]

Right I've read this thread and have now decided to add my two penny's worth, and I don't mean to offend.

First off I am not religious, but I do respect other peoples believes, but as I'm getting older, my tolerance is slowly waining.

This is my view on how I see some today (without naming them, but you can guess what they are.)

1. One if you offend they want to kill you by removing your head, (OK it's the fanatics, but they tar everybody else with their brush)

2. It protect those who commit crimes against children, and in my opinion they should be lock up for life, or executed.

With regards to this story and many others like it.

If JWs are against this why go to hospital?

Why take the bed from somebody thats need it for life saving treatment?

With regards to speeding, thats a totally crap response, speed does not kill, its G-force from the sudden stopping that kills.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I always remember reading an article about two years ago, when a JW couple went into hospital, and the wife was having a baby, and whilst she was delivering, and it got into trouble, and was losing blood, they blatantly refused blood, and she died, the baby survived, and the husband was heard to say, it was something that god wanted, this is what makes me mad, ok, l am religious, but l would never put my wife and family in danger, through a church cult such as this.

that is most likely either the article mis-representing what he actually said or as they more normally do just making it up

we dont believe that god takes any one or that we are predestined to die at any particular time

what he may have meant is that she died doing what she believed in

non of us follow this belief with the intention of dieing but just as some one who is willing to go to war for this country or as it is now to protect as they see it a way of life for the western world do so knowing its a possibility they may die we follow our belief

i know many churches do often give out the message that some one especially when its a child was taken by god but it is something we would say is contradictory to bible teaching

(Ecclesiastes 9:11-12) “. . .I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all. 12 For man also does not know his time. Just like fishes that are being taken in an evil net, and like birds that are being taken in a trap, so the sons of men themselves are being ensnared at a calamitous time, when it falls upon them suddenly.�

there are other scriptures but that is the most well know and still used in part by many "time and unforseen"

sorry if i am going on but i am often annoyed by what you were with what you heard when said by the clergy of other religions so can understand why hearing that was what he was supposed to have said and had to say it wouyld not be something would say or even think about a death

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Right I've read this thread and have now decided to add my two penny's worth, and I don't mean to offend.

First off I am not religious, but I do respect other peoples believes, but as I'm getting older, my tolerance is slowly waining.

This is my view on how I see some today (without naming them, but you can guess what they are.)

1. One if you offend they want to kill you by removing your head, (OK it's the fanatics, but they tar everybody else with their brush)

2. It protect those who commit crimes against children, and in my opinion they should be lock up for life, or executed.

With regards to this story and many others like it.

If JWs are against this why go to hospital?

Why take the bed from somebody thats need it for life saving treatment?

With regards to speeding, thats a totally crap response, speed does not kill, its G-force from the sudden stopping that kills.

Sorry but I thought G Force was a measurement of acceleration in relation relative to freefall

Also its not always the deacceleration or sudden stopping that kills in car acccidents either but the impact of the body onto a hard surface or the the crushing of the body or lacerations penitrations and various other possibilities so your response is just as flawed as when I mentioned speeding in the first place

JWs have the same rights as anyone else and what you said I find deeply prejudiced. The lad refused blood not other treatment I am sure he was on pain killers and therefore died more comfortable thean he would have done otherwise

You say you are tolerant well I say you are not