Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I genuinely have no idea what you’re talking about..

Course you don't, lets leave that aside then and go with you're the one who came up with the bright idea of ethnically cleansing hundreds of thousands of people from their homes and moving them to the desert and now require other people to tell you why that's a bad idea and if that's not enough there's another reason why Arab countries don't want them too that anyone who'd paid a scintilla of attention over the last 40 odd years would know.

Originally Posted by Hugh

The people asking for a cease-fire are asking it of both sides (otherwise it’s not a cease-fire, is it?)

Is there any evidence Hamas would actually obey any ceasefire ?

Given how they started this latest war, I would not trust them an inch, and neither I suspect will Israel.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Paul

Is there any evidence Hamas would actually obey any ceasefire ?

Given how they started this latest war, I would not trust them an inch, and neither I suspect will Israel.

Think there is plenty of evidence to prove they would not. They want Israel gone that is pretty clear

[Pierre]

Ok, now you've phrased it better I understand

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

you're the one who came up with the bright idea of ethnically cleansing hundreds of thousands of people from their homes and moving them to the desert and now require other people to tell you why that's a bad idea

I was just highlighting that one group will have to be removed as a two state solution wont happen and the difference between the two is that Palestinians could be resettled with arab neighbours but jews could not.

and if that's not enough there's another reason why Arab countries don't want them too that anyone who'd paid a scintilla of attention over the last 40 odd years would know.

Do tell

[jfman]

The Jews could be resettled to North America where they find their best (only?) ally?

Probably cheaper than the tens of billions in military aid America are already provided. Guaranteed security.

Although I accept it doesn’t benefit the shareholders of the military industrial complex.

(To be clear, this isn’t my proposed answer. I’m only pointing out how ridiculous it sounds to support ethnic cleansing)

There will always be another Hamas, or some other useful idiots America fund in a proxy war, willing to take up the mantle. That’s no reason to deny Palestinians the right to exist in their own homeland.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by jfman

The Jews could be resettled to North America where they find their best (only?) ally?

Probably cheaper than the tens of billions in military aid America are already provided. Guaranteed security.

Although I accept it doesn’t benefit the shareholders of the military industrial complex.

(To be clear, this isn’t my proposed answer. I’m only pointing out how ridiculous it sounds to support ethnic cleansing)

There will always be another Hamas, or some other useful idiots America fund in a proxy war, willing to take up the mantle. That’s no reason to deny Palestinians the right to exist in their own homeland.

The Israelites and the Palestinians all share the same common ancestors the Canaanites anyway so either side claiming they have rights to the land over each other is folly.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

The Jews could be resettled to North America where they find their best (only?) ally?

Probably cheaper than the tens of billions in military aid America are already provided. Guaranteed security.

Although I accept it doesn’t benefit the shareholders of the military industrial complex.

(To be clear, this isn’t my proposed answer. I’m only pointing out how ridiculous it sounds to support ethnic cleansing)

There will always be another Hamas, or some other useful idiots America fund in a proxy war, willing to take up the mantle. That’s no reason to deny Palestinians the right to exist in their own homeland.

Your disclaimer doesn't absolve you of the suspicion of antisemitism on your part. Hitler's lot had a similar idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

The Madagascar Plan was a plan proposed by the Nazi German government to forcibly relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar. Franz Rademacher, head of the Jewish Department of the German Foreign Office, proposed the idea in June 1940, shortly before the Fall of France. The proposal called for the handing over of control of Madagascar, then a French colony, to Germany as part of the eventual peace terms.

The idea of re-settling Polish Jews to Madagascar was investigated by the Polish government in 1937,[1][2] but the task force sent to evaluate the island's potential determined that only 5,000 to 7,000 families could be accommodated, or even as few as 500 families by some estimates.[a] As the efforts by the Nazis to encourage the emigration of the Jewish population of Germany before World War II were only partially successful, the idea of deporting Jews to Madagascar was revived by the Nazi government in 1940.

Rademacher recommended on 3 June 1940 that Madagascar should be made available as a destination for the Jews of Europe. With Adolf Hitler's approval, Adolf Eichmann released a memorandum on 15 August 1940 calling for the resettlement of a million Jews per year for four years, with the island being governed as a police state under the SS. They assumed that many Jews would succumb to its harsh conditions should the plan be implemented.[5] The plan was not viable when proposed due to the British naval blockade. It was postponed after the Nazis lost the Battle of Britain in September 1940, and it was permanently shelved in 1942 with the commencement of the Final Solution, the policy of systematic genocide of Jews, towards which it had functioned as an important psychological step.[6]

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

The Jews could be resettled to North America where they find their best (only?) ally?

Probably cheaper than the tens of billions in military aid America are already provided. Guaranteed security.

Although I accept it doesn’t benefit the shareholders of the military industrial complex.

(To be clear, this isn’t my proposed answer. I’m only pointing out how ridiculous it sounds to support ethnic cleansing)

There will always be another Hamas, or some other useful idiots America fund in a proxy war, willing to take up the mantle. That’s no reason to deny Palestinians the right to exist in their own homeland.

Is Israel really denying the Palestinians the right to exist in their own homeland?

The current Israel is as much the homeland of Semitic Jews as it is of the Arabs who currently live there.

Plus the UN carved up the Palestinian land mass into a Jewish State and an intended Palestinian state. That's the legal position. Then the Arabs declared war on Israel several times and they are now where that has taken Israel.

You really do come across as ant-Jewish even if only through a sideways angle.

[jfman]

The relocation idea is 100% antisemitic Pierre.

It’s the counter claim that the suggestion that ethnic cleansing the Palestinians is a good idea that’s also racist. I just opened your eyes to it by turning it on it’s head.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

The relocation idea is 100% antisemitic Pierre.

It’s the counter claim that the suggestion that ethnic cleansing the Palestinians is a good idea that’s also racist. I just opened your eyes to it by turning it on it’s head.

Given that a two state solution is not possible, which group do you suggest should inherit the land in question.

How it will be decided? and what happens to the displaced group?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Given that a two state solution is not possible, which group do you suggest should inherit the land in question.

How it will be decided? and what happens to the displaced group?

I think it’s presumptuous to suggest a two state solution isn’t possible.

It’s not helpful to have an Israeli government spending 17 years propping up Hamas though at the expense of developing a normal economic and political ecosystem in the Palestinian territories.

If you think they’re bad guys, shouldn’t you condemn Israel for their part?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Do tell

Look what's happened to countries that have accommodated large numbers of Palestinians before, civil wars and coup attempts, not sure I'd be keen to solve Israel's problems with those potential consequences

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

I think it’s presumptuous to suggest a two state solution isn’t possible.

It's been on offer, at least a couple times, no takers. Mainly because the only terms acceptable to Palestinians is there should be no Jewish state at all, you know River to the Sea and all that.

So I ask again, Given that a two state solution is not possible, which group do you suggest should inherit the land in question.

How it will be decided? and what happens to the displaced group?

It’s not helpful to have an Israeli government spending 17 years propping up Hamas though at the expense of developing a normal economic and political ecosystem in the Palestinian territories.

You thrown this is in a couple of times now, so again help me out. Is this just your theory or do have something I can refer to?

---------- Post added at 14:06 ---------- Previous post was at 14:00 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Look what's happened to countries that have accommodated large numbers of Palestinians before, civil wars and coup attempts, not sure I'd be keen to solve Israel's problems with those potential consequences

We can agree on that.

[OLD BOY]

The whole area could be shared between the two sides if the Palestinians weren’t so violent and objectionable.

Integration will never be possible until there is trust, which is a long way off. And if anyone thinks the Israelis are going to be bullied off their land, they have another think coming.

In the meantime, Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar is said to have been isolated in his bunker, according to Israel. Perhaps the end to this war is in sight.

Originally Posted by Pierre

It's been on offer, at least a couple times, no takers. Mainly because the only terms acceptable to Palestinians is there should be no Jewish state at all, you know River to the Sea and all that.

So I ask again, Given that a two state solution is not possible, which group do you suggest should inherit the land in question.

How it will be decided? and what happens to the displaced group?



You thrown this is in a couple of times now, so again help me out. Is this just your theory or do have something I can refer to?

---------- Post added at 14:06 ---------- Previous post was at 14:00 ----------



We can agree on that.

Post #601 in this thread, yesterday @ 09:32

Originally Posted by Hugh

Interesting article from the Times of Israel, published the day after the Hamas attack.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-ye...-in-our-faces/

re your other point

It's been on offer, at least a couple times, no takers. Mainly because the only terms acceptable to Palestinians is there should be no Jewish state at all

From the article I posted yesterday at 23:07 in reply to a previous post of yours

https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-state-solution

You keep conflating "Hamas" with "Palestinians", when in fact Fatah has a number of times taken part in Two State talks, but they keep falling apart when the Israelis set up new settlement in the West Bank and Jerusalem, in contravention of the Oslo Accords.

---------- Post added at 14:39 ---------- Previous post was at 14:37 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The whole area could be shared between the two sides if the Palestinians weren’t so violent and objectionable.

Integration will never be possible until there is trust, which is a long way off. And if anyone thinks the Israelis are going to be bullied off their land, they have another think coming.

In the meantime, Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar is said to have been isolated in his bunker, according to Israel. Perhaps the end to this war is in sight.

You’re conflating "Hamas" with "Palestinians" - all Hamas are Palestinians, not all Palestinians are Hamas.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You keep conflating "Hamas" with "Palestinians", when in fact Fatah has a number of times taken part in Two State talks, but they keep falling apart when the Israelis set up new settlement in the West Bank and Jerusalem, in contravention of the Oslo Accords.

They are occupying the West Bank for security reasons, again due to the violence and intimidation of the Palestinians. They haven’t taken it over, they are sharing the land, which of course is the only sensible long term objective.

As for your statement about conflating Hamas with the wider Palestinian population, they all seem to be stubbornly clinging on to their hatred of Israel and feel the need to have them all destroyed.

There’s a reason why Jordan didn’t want them.