Smart Meters and Tariffs

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by thenry

Apologies for asking to be spoon fed. I just have no clue. I don't think agile benefits me. Tracker looks ok. Thank you for advising me.

Tracker is best if you use most of your power between 3pm and 8pm and can't change that.

Agile is better if you can check the prices each day and adjust your usage accordingly. But many people can't or won't do that.

Agile is also good if your usage is mostly steady across the whole day.
On average (across the whole day) it generally works out cheaper than flexible or tracker.

[Kursk]

Channel 5 had a good old dig about smart meters on Thursday night.

The preamble: "New gas and electricity meters promise to save customers time, money and energy, but cameras reveal not all is what it seems when it comes to smart meters. With reports of more and more horror stories of inaccurate bills and an invasion of privacy, an investigation into things the energy companies and the government don't want you to know".

Think it was shown earlier this year too.

"inaccurate bills" has always been an issue, not unique to smart meters.

"invasion of privacy" ? What nonsense is that ? How does a meter invade anyones privacy ?

What exactly "dont they want us to know" ?


Oh, and my smart meter hasnt been so smart this week.
It stopped sending readings for 6 days (still sent them to the Mini, but not the DCC).
So now they have a bit of data catching up to do.

---------- Post added at 03:35 ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 ----------

Some British Gas sales person knocked at my door today.

Them: Are you worried about gas & energy prices going up ?
Me: Not really, I pay less than most people
Them: So you are on a fixed tariff ?
Me: No, I'm on Octopus Agile & Tracker
Them: They are variable ?
Me: Yes, they vary from day to day.
Them: You're on variable, so that means they are going up
Me: No, it means they are variable, higher sometimes, lower other times
Them: But the energy cap has gone up, so variable has gone up.
Me: No, they dont rely on the cap.
Them: So they are fixed ?

* Sigh * it went downhill from there, they could not grasp the concept.
You would think people trying to sell you energy would at least understand their competitors.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Paul

"inaccurate bills" has always been an issue, not unique to smart meters.

"invasion of privacy" ? What nonsense is that ? How does a meter invade anyones privacy ?

What exactly "dont they want us to know" ?


Oh, and my smart meter hasnt been so smart this week.
It stopped sending readings for 6 days (still sent them to the Mini, but not the DCC).
So now they have a bit of data catching up to do.

---------- Post added at 03:35 ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 ----------

Some British Gas sales person knocked at my door today.

Them: Are you worried about gas & energy prices going up ?
Me: Not really, I pay less than most people
Them: So you are on a fixed tariff ?
Me: No, I'm on Octopus Agile & Tracker
Them: They are variable ?
Me: Yes, they vary from day to day.
Them: You're on variable, so that means they are going up
Me: No, it means they are variable, higher sometimes, lower other times
Them: But the energy cap has gone up, so variable has gone up.
Me: No, they dont rely on the cap.
Them: So they are fixed ?

* Sigh * it went downhill from there, they could not grasp the concept.
You would think people trying to sell you energy would at least understand their competitors.

I was with British gas for 2 years and in that time, they tried everything under the sun to turn me over. I had one of the old-style meters which i had to read each month and send in readings or they would have continued to keep increasing my direct debit without my consent. I would never use them again even if they were the only power company left. Since moving to my smart meter i have never had any of the issues British gas tried. I have tried a few of the power companies out there. The worst were British Gas and OVO energy.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Paul

"invasion of privacy" ? What nonsense is that ? How does a meter invade anyones privacy ?

Usage patterns I think which is/might be passed to third parties. It is possible to tell what and when you use appliances by the energy consumed.

The inference is that there’s less in it for the consumer whilst our data is the real value and the increased level of control passing to your provider.

[Taf]

I heard a uSwitch radio advert yesterday. Maybe competition is returning to the energy market. ???

Originally Posted by Kursk

Usage patterns I think which is/might be passed to third parties. It is possible to tell what and when you use appliances by the energy consumed.

The inference is that there’s less in it for the consumer whilst our data is the real value and the increased level of control passing to your provider.

The Smart Meter collects total energy usage, not by individual appliance, so not sure how this could be dis-aggregated, and it is illegal for energy suppliers to share individualised customer energy usage to third parties without the customers’ consent.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The Smart Meter collects total energy usage, not by individual appliance, so not sure how this could be dis-aggregated, and it is illegal for energy suppliers to share individualised customer energy usage to third parties without the customers’ consent.

If they think it will create a good story then they will say anything, especially If it's on their web page edition as clicks means money .

If you have ever had the misfortune to click on the Daily Fails website, you will know what i mean I have never seen so many popups and crap in my life, its only redeeming feature is that you can test you PI-Hole add blocker to ensure it is working correctly

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The Smart Meter collects total energy usage, not by individual appliance, so not sure how this could be dis-aggregated, and it is illegal for energy suppliers to share individualised customer energy usage to third parties without the customers’ consent.

I don't doubt your word Hugh but did you see the programme? It's on My5 catchup if you want to see the "13 things they don't want you to know about smart meters". I think it was on last Thursday and called "Smart meters - are they really worth it?".

Originally Posted by Sirius

If they think it will create a good story then they will say anything, especially If it's on their web page edition as clicks means money .

If you have ever had the misfortune to click on the Daily Fails website, you will know what i mean I have never seen so many popups and crap in my life, its only redeeming feature is that you can test you PI-Hole add blocker to ensure it is working correctly

This wasn't from the website, it was on TV.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Paul

"inaccurate bills" has always been an issue, not unique to smart meters.

"invasion of privacy" ? What nonsense is that ? How does a meter invade anyones privacy ?

What exactly "dont they want us to know" ?


Oh, and my smart meter hasnt been so smart this week.
It stopped sending readings for 6 days (still sent them to the Mini, but not the DCC).
So now they have a bit of data catching up to do.

---------- Post added at 03:35 ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 ----------

Some British Gas sales person knocked at my door today.

Them: Are you worried about gas & energy prices going up ?
Me: Not really, I pay less than most people
Them: So you are on a fixed tariff ?
Me: No, I'm on Octopus Agile & Tracker
Them: They are variable ?
Me: Yes, they vary from day to day.
Them: You're on variable, so that means they are going up
Me: No, it means they are variable, higher sometimes, lower other times
Them: But the energy cap has gone up, so variable has gone up.
Me: No, they dont rely on the cap.
Them: So they are fixed ?

* Sigh * it went downhill from there, they could not grasp the concept.
You would think people trying to sell you energy would at least understand their competitors.

Except - it is British Gas, after all! They are dinosaurs.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Except - it is British Gas, after all! They are dinosaurs.

Hopefully British Gas will go extinct as well.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The Smart Meter collects total energy usage, not by individual appliance, so not sure how this could be dis-aggregated, and it is illegal for energy suppliers to share individualised customer energy usage to third parties without the customers’ consent.

Notwithstanding that AI might be up to the disaggregation task, it no doubt helps that smart meters (if used purposefully) deliver usage data in more “manageable” 30 minute chunks. And, where consent is required, it often becomes part of the deal if you want the best tariff.

Coercion will rule even if data sharing consent is initially withheld. The notion that the user has any control might therefore be an illusion?

[downquark1]

It is trivial to disaggregate certain tasks. I can look at my own data and can see when I have a shower and when I am cooking and when I do the washing. An electric car would also be very obvious.

If you lived on your own it may be possible to disaggregate television watching but in a family I'm not sure you can do that.

The data would have certain implications as I mentioned earlier but not others.

Originally Posted by downquark1

I can look at my own data and can see when I have a shower and when I am cooking and when I do the washing.

You can see you used more power, only you know what you were using it for, anyone else has to guess.

[ They would also have to have the data in the first place, its not just handed out to anyone who asks ].