Has to be Racist Surely

[danielf]

Originally Posted by me283

Whilst it is usually difficult to open a bank account in a given country as a foreign national, I have not heard of it being impossible. However, Lloyds have picked up on the fact the British Indians (whatever that term means) will be able to open accounts with ICICI, which is an Indian bank. Now, I might be reading this wrong, but if someone is British, then by what has been implied, ICICI will not give them an account; if they are Indian they will. Which means that British Indians as a term is a bit of a misnomer.

Looking at it from a different perspective, they state that "Customers wanting to use the service must first open an account with Lloyds TSB, which will then open a second account on their behalf with ICICI". However, if they only have to prove Indian descent, then the service is also technically open to people who are British.

Another interesting point in the article is the mention of Lloyds TSB having recently launched an "Islamic current account". What the Hell is that?! I thought Islam was a religion?

Muslims have different banking rules (they can't charge interest amongst others, so Muslim banks make their money through other charges). I would imagine it is a bank account that abides by these rules. I'm sure you could set one up if you wanted to.

Regarding the Indians, it may not have to do with the account, but with the mortgage and taking money out of the country.

"Lloyds TSB Bank launches service for British Indians:-
London | April 18, 2005 9:02:30 PM IST

British Indians living in the UK will be able to use branches of Lloyds TSB bank to arrange a rupee mortgage to buy property in India.

According to the BBC, Lloyds TSB's India banking service will also permit free money transfers between the UK and India.

The service is aimed at the UK's 1.2 million strong Indian community, many of whom have property, investments and savings in India.

But the service will not be available to people of non-Indian descent.

In order to launch its India Banking Service, Lloyds TSB has entered into partnership with Indian bank ICICI.

Customers wanting to use the service must first open an account with Lloyds TSB, which will then open a second account on their behalf with ICICI.

This will allow customers to transfer money between the Lloyds TSB and ICICI accounts for free.

In addition, the customer will have access to ICICI's home loan service, which will enable them to apply for a rupee mortgage to buy property in India, for themselves or as a buy-to-let investment.

Lloyds TSB, which recently launched an Islamic current account, said it believed the India banking service would help meet the needs of its British Indian customers.

"Many British Indians have businesses, properties and families back home which they continue to finance," Lloyds TSB spokesman Gordon Rankin said.

"The India Banking Service is designed with the needs of this community in mind and should help a large and vital part of the population get the most out of their money."

The India banking service will be available in all Lloyds TSB branches from the end of April.

But customers must be prepared to prove their Indian descent to open an account to comply with Indian banking regulations, Lloyds TSB said.(ANI)

[me283]

Fair enough, but I still feel that it would be possible for someone of non-Indian descent to open a bank account in India. The opening of a bank account is to do with an individual, not their forefathers.

Anyway, I wonder if they will do the same for Polish customers? Or Lithuanians? I regularly transfer money into Europe, will they do that for me without charges?

As I mentioned previously, whilst it is no doubt a good marketing ploy on the one hand, I think it will cause a lot of dissent on the other.

Originally Posted by me283

Fair enough, but I still feel that it would be possible for someone of non-Indian descent to open a bank account in India. The opening of a bank account is to do with an individual, not their forefathers.

Anyway, I wonder if they will do the same for Polish customers? Or Lithuanians? I regularly transfer money into Europe, will they do that for me without charges?

As I mentioned previously, whilst it is no doubt a good marketing ploy on the one hand, I think it will cause a lot of dissent on the other.

Maybe it's simply not possible for people not of Indian descent to open an account while not resident in India? I would have thought it extremely unlikely that an ex-pat of any nationality would be barred from holding an account at an Indian bank while resident in the country.

[me283]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Maybe it's simply not possible for people not of Indian descent to open an account while not resident in India? I would have thought it extremely unlikely that an ex-pat of any nationality would be barred from holding an account at an Indian bank while resident in the country.

OK, to put this in perspective, I know people who invest in property overseas. If they thought an opportunity were worth taking up in India, they would invest in property there. This usually necessitates opening an account in the country involved (certainly in cases where mortgages are involved, or services are required). Hence, someone in this situation would be discriminated against by Lloyds TSB.

[Monster Jedi]

All I can about this is " How are you today my friend? "

[me283]

Originally Posted by andyl

But customers must be prepared to prove their Indian descent to open an account to comply with Indian banking regulations, Lloyds TSB said.(ANI)

Does this mean that Indian banking law is discriminatory?!

Originally Posted by me283

OK, to put this in perspective, I know people who invest in property overseas. If they thought an opportunity were worth taking up in India, they would invest in property there. This usually necessitates opening an account in the country involved (certainly in cases where mortgages are involved, or services are required). Hence, someone in this situation would be discriminated against by Lloyds TSB.

Well, actually they're being discriminated against by ICICICICICIC or whatever they're called, or more accurately the Indian banking reg's, rather than Lloyds. I have no doubt that Lloyds TSB would take the chance to make some cash out of this from whites, asians and blacks alike if they could. It makes no sense for Lloyds to bar people from this deal if there is money to be made from it.

I don't have a clue why Indian banking regs would want to prevent the establishment of offshore accounts, but perhaps it could be to do with wanting to try to get people to set up offices in the territory (job creation) or to prevent property prices being pushed up by relatively rich foreign investors buying things up. Or maybe the Indian Government is just racist.

[me283]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Well, actually they're being discriminated against by ICICICICICIC or whatever they're called, or more accurately the Indian banking reg's, rather than Lloyds. I have no doubt that Lloyds TSB would take the chance to make some cash out of this from whites, asians and blacks alike if they could. It makes no sense for Lloyds to bar people from this deal if there is money to be made from it.

I don't have a clue why Indian banking regs would want to prevent the establishment of offshore accounts, but perhaps it could be to do with wanting to try to get people to set up offices in the territory (job creation) or to prevent property prices being pushed up by relatively rich foreign investors buying things up. Or maybe the Indian Government is just racist.

I wonder if this will create anything like the backlash that Barclays suffered regarding South Africa a few years back... I'm not saying for one second that the two issues are identical, just wondering rhetorically.

"Local financing
All sources of local financing are available to foreign-participation companies incorporated in India, regardless of the extent of foreign participation. Under foreign exchange regulations, foreigners and non-residents, including foreign companies, require the permission of the Reserve Bank of India to borrow from a person or company resident in India."

http://finance.indiamart.com/investm...dia/banks.html

[me283]

Originally Posted by andyl

"Local financing
All sources of local financing are available to foreign-participation companies incorporated in India, regardless of the extent of foreign participation. Under foreign exchange regulations, foreigners and non-residents, including foreign companies, require the permission of the Reserve Bank of India to borrow from a person or company resident in India."

http://finance.indiamart.com/investm...dia/banks.html

So surely that includes people of Indian descent, who are British? And foreign nationals CAN open a bank account in India.

What Lloyds TSB should be saying is that they require proof of an Indian bank account, not proof of Indian descent. By saying what they have, they are distorting the facts a little.

Anyway, the article stated that if you can prove Indian descent (even if you are a British national, and hence a foreigner in India), they will open an Indian bank account for you. Presumably the Indian banking regs apply to them too, so how can they guarantee permission from the Reserve Bank of India?

I don't wish to sound pedantic, but Lloyds TSB have just made what some perceive to be a discriminatory move, and used the excuse of regulations which are being somewhat mis-represented.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by andyl

Hold up. How are we supposed to have a heated debate if we start agreeing with each other? C'mon, play fair

You know what, the sun is shining on the Bury cobbles and all is well with the world!

OK, I disagree

[cookie_365]

According to the CAB:

It is unlawful for anyone providing goods, facilities or services in the United Kingdom to discriminate on grounds of race, either by refusing to provide goods, services or facilities, or by providing them on less favourable terms or conditions. This is the case regardless of whether the goods, services or facilities are provided for payment or free.

†˜Racial groundsââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ include:-

• colour
• race
• nationality
• ethnic or national origins.

Seems to me that the only question is whether the UK bank is providing the Indian account as a service or just acting as the applicant's agent. Presumably the test would be if someone of non-Indian descent applied, would the UK bank fill in all the forms on their behalf, send them off, then relay the refusal back to them, or if they simply declined to offer the service ?

Originally Posted by Escapee

OK, I disagree

Well the sun has gone down now but the cobbles are still there. Are you starting?!!

[me283]

Originally Posted by cookie_365

According to the CAB:

It is unlawful for anyone providing goods, facilities or services in the United Kingdom to discriminate on grounds of race, either by refusing to provide goods, services or facilities, or by providing them on less favourable terms or conditions. This is the case regardless of whether the goods, services or facilities are provided for payment or free.

†˜Racial groundsââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ include:-

• colour
• race
• nationality
• ethnic or national origins.

Seems to me that the only question is whether the UK bank is providing the Indian account as a service or just acting as the applicant's agent. Presumably the test would be if someone of non-Indian descent applied, would the UK bank fill in all the forms on their behalf, send them off, then relay the refusal back to them, or if they simply declined to offer the service ?

Well, Lloyds TSB are calling it the Indian Banking Service... Now, one would imagine that by their very wording they are acting illegally; alternatively, if they fall back on the "acting as an agent" argument, then they are being unethical at best, and possibly still acting illegally at best.

Anyway, time will tell.