smoking and the pub

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by clarie

And until they are there in black and white in front of your eyes, you don't see why you should allow your 'enjoyment' on a night out be slightly marred by a little walk outside to light up...

Nope.

[basa]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Because it's a soft target, the links between passive smoking and any of the smoking related illnesses have not been categorically proven.

Enough for me to realise I am risking my life ... but that's my choice.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Anyway I'm not bothered for me the argument is over, I am an infrequent smoker usually having a smoke only whenever I am having a drinking session.

Or stop altogether.

Originally Posted by Pierre

And I'm happy to say that my local does not serve food and therefore my enjoyment of a night out will not be affected.

But not that of those in the same room.

Originally Posted by Pierre

And I'm happy to say that my local does not serve food and therefore my enjoyment of a night out will not be affected.

And I'm happy to say that here in Scotland we are protected from that classic piece of Westminster fudge. Smoking will be gone from every public building, without exception, from next April. Bring it on.

[SlackDad]

It will, however, be interesting to see how strictly the ban will be observed, firstly by landlords, etc. and secondly by the police/local authority? Is this going to be such a high priority on the agenda when the ban actually comes into effect? Or maybe it will go the same way as fox hunting where, to the best of my knowledge, no prosecutions have taken place even though hunting with hounds is still, in some way, occuring.

Originally Posted by SlackDad

It will, however, be interesting to see how strictly the ban will be observed, firstly by landlords, etc. and secondly by the police/local authority? Is this going to be such a high priority on the agenda when the ban actually comes into effect? Or maybe it will go the same way as fox hunting where, to the best of my knowledge, no prosecutions have taken place even though hunting with hounds is still, in some way, occuring.

Well I for one thought the Irish ban would not be enforced or adhered to: I was wrong (it made a pleasant change )

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by SlackDad

It will, however, be interesting to see how strictly the ban will be observed, firstly by landlords, etc. and secondly by the police/local authority? Is this going to be such a high priority on the agenda when the ban actually comes into effect? Or maybe it will go the same way as fox hunting where, to the best of my knowledge, no prosecutions have taken place even though hunting with hounds is still, in some way, occuring.

Fines in the Republic of Ireland have been imposed though, the smoking ban works very well over here, smokers don't complain (people leave that to the english ) as most pubs have created a heated area outside for them.

It will be very interesting to see what happens. I would imagine that isolated small local pubs all over the place will possibly not change at first, unless there is already a body of opinion among the locals that the ban should be enforced. It's unlikely the police are going to prioritise it.

However in the big city venues, you are more likely to get people whp carry on lighting up as they basically don't give a stuff, and in these places the police are more likely to be on hand to dish out on-the-spot fines.

I suspect that the way this is most likely to be enforced is to impose nasty punishment on proprietors who allow smoking to continue, to give them an incentive to ensure it stops.
__________________

Originally Posted by Bifta

most pubs have created a heated area outside for them.

Woah, hang on - a smoking ban will contribute to global warming by stimulating sale and use of patio heaters! Stop the ban now!!

[Salu]

Originally Posted by Salu

Just to add another dimension to the debate.

If I could predominantly address the smokers...

Ash estimates that just under 5000 lives could be saved each year by this smoking ban. If they are liberally overestimating that figure and just for arguments sake we said it only saved one life......wouldn't it be worth it? If I handed a bag round asking for a £1 to save a life of someone who had cancer for eg, you'd probably put one in. It wouldn't really cost you much (unless you were very poor of course). So how about actually allowing an element of cost into your life with respect to smoking and save a life?

In reference to children and passive smoking mentioned before, did you realise that 17000 children under the age of 5 are to hospital every year because of the effects of passive smoking?

Nicely dodgedSmokers, stop being so selfish and think of the health of the nation and not your "right" to smoke in a public enclosed space!

Nicely dodged, smokers....

[clarie]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Nope.

Well what can you do with that eh?

[fireman328]

Has anyone considered what the effects of dry ice and smoke machines in places of public entertainment are ?

As far as I am aware the dry ice, CO2 is an asphixiant and the smoke effects are generated by heating vegetable oil.
Will the owners have to go outdoors to use these effects which are very common, particularly at this time of year, with pantomimes attracting children or will some non-smoker decide that this effect is perfectly safe for all to inhale on this occasion. Will a risk assessment be carried out on the effect to patrons and theatre staff of inhaling this smoke. What will be the effect on live theatre if someone sues a club or theatre for not safeguarding their health and safety by allowing them to inhale smoke ?
Oh, I forgot, the witch hunt is only against tobacco smoke.
How many of the non smokers will still attend pantos and discos.
I feel it slightly ironic that all the tobacco smokers will be outside the building in the fresh air whilst all the non smokers will be indoors in the smoke.
It has finally happened, the lunatics are running the asylum.

I have a fog machine (currently set up for Halloween). It's non-toxic.

[SlackDad]

Originally Posted by Salu

Just to add another dimension to the debate.

If I could predominantly address the smokers...

Ash estimates that just under 5000 lives could be saved each year by this smoking ban. If they are liberally overestimating that figure and just for arguments sake we said it only saved one life......wouldn't it be worth it? If I handed a bag round asking for a £1 to save a life of someone who had cancer for eg, you'd probably put one in. It wouldn't really cost you much (unless you were very poor of course). So how about actually allowing an element of cost into your life with respect to smoking and save a life?

In reference to children and passive smoking mentioned before, did you realise that 17000 children under the age of 5 are to hospital every year because of the effects of passive smoking?

Smokers, stop being so selfish and think of the health of the nation and not your "right" to smoke in a public enclosed space!

Well firstly the figures are hardly from an unbiased source, and as you say, estimated. Presumably they refer to smokers rather than non-smokers, so are they saying that a percentage of smokers will give-up, hence the lives saved. This argument has been used before and as then I asked what the take-up rate of smoking was, and whether this declined due to a ban. From my experience most people do not start smoking in an enclosed public spaces, but rather sneaked at school, parks etc.

I also believe that this ban will have minimal, if any effect on children, as most children do not frequent smoky pubs but rather are affected within the home environment. BTW Where did you get those figures? Increased respiratory diseases in children is not simply down to passive smoking but many other factors, such as increasingly untested chemicals in household products, and even being to clean.

[clarie]

Originally Posted by fireman328

Has anyone considered what the effects of dry ice and smoke machines in places of public entertainment are ?

As far as I am aware the dry ice, CO2 is an asphixiant and the smoke effects are generated by heating vegetable oil.
Will the owners have to go outdoors to use these effects which are very common, particularly at this time of year, with pantomimes attracting children or will some non-smoker decide that this effect is perfectly safe for all to inhale on this occasion. Will a risk assessment be carried out on the effect to patrons and theatre staff of inhaling this smoke. What will be the effect on live theatre if someone sues a club or theatre for not safeguarding their health and safety by allowing them to inhale smoke ?
Oh, I forgot, the witch hunt is only against tobacco smoke.
How many of the non smokers will still attend pantos and discos.
I feel it slightly ironic that all the tobacco smokers will be outside the building in the fresh air whilst all the non smokers will be indoors in the smoke.
It has finally happened, the lunatics are running the asylum.

'Witch hunt'. Have you been smoking a bit of the old wacky backy? Feeling a little paranoid?

Honestly speaking this debate has taken on a rather crazy slant - I feel like Alice in Wonderland.

Seriously fireman I hear what you're saying but once again how is any of this an argument against banning smoking in public places?

[SlackDad]

Originally Posted by clarie

Honestly speaking this debate has taken on a rather crazy slant - I feel like Alice in Wonderland.

You obviously like your poisons a little stronger
__________________

Originally Posted by fireman328

Has anyone considered what the effects of dry ice and smoke machines in places of public entertainment are ?

As far as I am aware the dry ice, CO2 is an asphixiant and the smoke effects are generated by heating vegetable oil.
Will the owners have to go outdoors to use these effects which are very common, particularly at this time of year, with pantomimes attracting children or will some non-smoker decide that this effect is perfectly safe for all to inhale on this occasion. Will a risk assessment be carried out on the effect to patrons and theatre staff of inhaling this smoke. What will be the effect on live theatre if someone sues a club or theatre for not safeguarding their health and safety by allowing them to inhale smoke ?
Oh, I forgot, the witch hunt is only against tobacco smoke.
How many of the non smokers will still attend pantos and discos.
I feel it slightly ironic that all the tobacco smokers will be outside the building in the fresh air whilst all the non smokers will be indoors in the smoke.
It has finally happened, the lunatics are running the asylum.

I think this post nicely encapulates the way that as a society we are becoming obessed with risk assessing every aspect of our lives. In the mean time, of course, life is passing us by. I'm frankly starting to wonder that if people are that concerned with smoking in pubs etc. then maybe they haven't really got that much to worry about at all.

[clarie]

Originally Posted by SlackDad

I'm frankly starting to wonder that if people are that concerned with smoking in pubs etc. then maybe they haven't really got that much to worry about at all.

I am surprised by what you say. of course we are concerned about our health, more to the point, why aren't you?