The anyone but England thread!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Flobajob

Why don't you make your mind up? In another thread you said you were "rooting for England" so either you do support them or you don't. You appear to be changing your mind dependent on who you've got online to back you up.

Where have I indicated that I'm not supporting England?

Originally Posted by weirdworldstate

I asked that question too, but then one of the mods currently online (BTW, that's not that many!) deleted the thread..

If you'd read my last post in there you'd have seen that I was moving it so the off-topic posts could be removed but it would return (as it has now).

[weirdworldstate]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Where have I indicated that I'm not supporting England?

Difficult to quote it now, because it's no longer there, but you said something along the lines of you being ambivalent about England - hardly 'supporting', is it?

Originally Posted by Russ D

If you'd read my last post in there you'd have seen that I was moving it so the off-topic posts could be removed but it would return (as it has now).

I now realise that the thread has been sanitised. Sorry for calling it 'deleted'.

I didn't think the posts were OT, since the issue was about mis-placed nationalism - which I think was being explored.

[Flobajob]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Where have I indicated that I'm not supporting England?

The chap who posted before you said that Scotland would probably support England if the media didn't hype them so much, inferring that because of the media, he didn't support England, you then said "at last, someone who understands" inferring that you were of exactly the same mind, i.e. that you don't support England because of the media, so either you do, or you don't.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by weirdworldstate

Difficult to quote it now, because it's no longer there, but you said something along the lines of you being ambivalent about England - hardly 'supporting', is it?

No, it's difficult to quote because I didn't say it. Nowhere have I said I don't want England to win. Better luck next time at putting words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by weirdworldstate

I now realise that the thread has been sanitised. Sorry for calling it 'deleted'.

Originally Posted by weirdworldstate

I didn't think the posts were OT, since the issue was about mis-placed nationalism - which I think was being explored.

It's about the way it was being discussed.

Originally Posted by Flobajob

The chap who posted before you said that Scotland would probably support England if the media didn't hype them so much, inferring that because of the media, he didn't support England, you then said "at last, someone who understands" inferring that you were of exactly the same mind, i.e. that you don't support England because of the media, so either you do, or you don't.

I'm inferring that? Rubbish! What I'm saying is he understands why so many people are against an England win! If I didn't want to see England succeed I would have already said that somewhere on this site. Instead I've posted numerous times I'd like to see them lift the cup (even if it means it's all we'll hear about for the next 40 years), plus I hinted at that in my sig!

I've also made it clear that I don't think England have the quality to win - but that doesn't mean I don't want them to do it!

[Flobajob]

Originally Posted by Russ D

No, it's difficult to quote because I didn't say it. Nowhere have I said I don't want England to win. Better luck next time at putting words in my mouth.







It's about the way it was being discussed.



I'm inferring that? Rubbish! What I'm saying is he understands why so many people are against an England win! If I didn't want to see England succeed I would have already said that somewhere on this site. Instead I've posted numerous times I'd like to see them lift the cup (even if it means it's all we'll hear about for the next 40 years), plus I hinted at that in my sig!

I've also made it clear that I don't think England have the quality to win - but that doesn't mean I don't want them to do it!

It really is quite laughable, you say things like:

--------------

If it was only jealousy then we'd get over it quick enough - but no, the rest of us are tired of the way the media glorifies everything England does and the BBC's incredible biased approach is what makes us happy to watch another failure at the World Cup for Sven's men

Yep, definately a stereotypical England fan who would rather point out the faults of other teams than realise his own team won't win

Yes, the difference is we know we're crap - you lot are under the dilusion you're in with a chance of winning the whole thing

Again! Rather than face up to the fact your team will fail yet again, you attack my team

I really don't know who I want to win this game. On one hand this WC has made me lean slightly towards England, yet my nationality dictates I should take pleasure in watching them lose.

Brazil, France, Holland, Argentina - England don't exactly gave a shining record against those? But as you say, who cares - it's not as if England will win the World Cup

England won't win the World Cup. Just accept it - I have!

Because they're not good enough?

Oh and I'll stick my neck out here and say England won't win the World Cup - fact.

Easy - because they're not good enough to win it - so they won't

You've just about gauranteed yourself a pile of gloating PMs when England fail again

Just think - England's World Cup dreams could be OVER in a matter of hours

Because England simply aren't good enough - easy. Other teams have misfired but are impressive sides and play well togather. IMO the same cannot be said about England.

--------------

Then you temper it with some droll line like "but I hope they win!", as if it's an afterthought to stop people having a poke at you, judging by what you've posted in this thread, you're certainly not support England in any way and you're just trying to cover your own back.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Flobajob

It really is quite laughable, you say things like:

--------------

If it was only jealousy then we'd get over it quick enough - but no, the rest of us are tired of the way the media glorifies everything England does and the BBC's incredible biased approach is what makes us happy to watch another failure at the World Cup for Sven's men

Yep, definately a stereotypical England fan who would rather point out the faults of other teams than realise his own team won't win

Yes, the difference is we know we're crap - you lot are under the dilusion you're in with a chance of winning the whole thing

Again! Rather than face up to the fact your team will fail yet again, you attack my team

I really don't know who I want to win this game. On one hand this WC has made me lean slightly towards England, yet my nationality dictates I should take pleasure in watching them lose.

Brazil, France, Holland, Argentina - England don't exactly gave a shining record against those? But as you say, who cares - it's not as if England will win the World Cup

England won't win the World Cup. Just accept it - I have!

Because they're not good enough?

Oh and I'll stick my neck out here and say England won't win the World Cup - fact.

Easy - because they're not good enough to win it - so they won't

You've just about gauranteed yourself a pile of gloating PMs when England fail again

Just think - England's World Cup dreams could be OVER in a matter of hours

Because England simply aren't good enough - easy. Other teams have misfired but are impressive sides and play well togather. IMO the same cannot be said about England.

--------------

Then you temper it with some droll line like "but I hope they win!", as if it's an afterthought to stop people having a poke at you, judging by what you've posted in this thread, you're certainly not support England in any way and you're just trying to cover your own back.

Actually, and just to play Devils Advocate, there is a difference between supporting a team and hoping that team does well - Russ (amongst others) is fully justified in not supporting England, because he's not English, but it doesn't mean that he can't wish them the best in the competition

EDIT: Thinking on, I just see it as the difference between supporting a team and following it - the example being that,even though I don't support Grimsby Town, I always look for their results 'cos I've been living here for 13 years.

[Flobajob]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Actually, and just to play Devils Advocate, there is a difference between supporting a team and hoping that team does well - Russ (amongst others) is fully justified in not supporting England, because he's not English, but it doesn't mean that he can't wish the best in the competition

In another thread he said that he was "rooting for England", answer me this, do any of those posts above sound like someone who is "rooting for England"?

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Flobajob

In another thread he said that he was "rooting for England", answer me this, do any of those posts above sound like someone who is "rooting for England"?

Taken out of context like that? No, they don't. But as part of a thread, some of them were light-hearted responses to others (or, at least, that's how I read them), whereas others were Russ explaining that, while he doesn't support England, he doesn't mind if they do well, but is reacting to the media bias (which, after all, is pretty much what this thread was about in the first place )

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Flobajob

In another thread he said that he was "rooting for England", answer me this, do any of those posts above sound like someone who is "rooting for England"?

Nugget sums it up, only your agenda won't let you see it. Yes I want England to win it but I don't think they will - how is that such a hard concept to grasp?

[Flobajob]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Nugget sums it up, only your agenda won't let you see it. Yes I want England to win it but I don't think they will - how is that such a hard concept to grasp?

If it was only jealousy then we'd get over it quick enough - but no, the rest of us are tired of the way the media glorifies everything England does and the BBC's incredible biased approach is what makes us happy to watch another failure at the World Cup for Sven's men

[Russ]

OK I know reading comments out of context helps to strengthen your argument but look past it for a moment - the line you've just quoted shows me saying that when the media rams England down our throats, it creats bad feelings towards them. So when we get an England overload the reaction is to look forward to an England loss. But as people have mentioned on here, what the media says and how the real fans feel are two seperate isues. With regards to the media, yes I'll smile at an England loss. For the fans, I will smile at a win.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

To be honest, having read a lot of the posts here, Russ did come across as not wanting England to do well, in how he's said a lot of the stuff he has. Maybe he didn't come across as he intended but based on his posts here I'd draw the conclusion, as would most people, that he doesnt want England to win. The fact he's put in a few lines saying he wants England to do well, and a significant number of quotes from him show he's happy to see them lose, wouldnt make me change my mind.

[weirdworldstate]

Originally Posted by Russ D

No, it's difficult to quote because I didn't say it.

Like I said, you've expunged the evidence now, so no way to prove it.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Nowhere have I said I don't want England to win.

I said you were ambivalent about their performance. Check the meaning.

I did not 'put words in your mouth' - I just didn't get the opportunity to quote you.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Better luck next time at putting words in my mouth.

Not likely if you keep removing the evidence...

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Flobajob

Links from his last post

Hang on matey - that is unfair. You've both taken that out of context, and ignored the fact that, while Russ may have said that, as a direct result of media bias, he'd be happy to see England lose, he'd also happily see them do well

[Flobajob]

You're either happy to see England lose (as Russ D is) or you support them and are happy to see them win, it's as simple as that. Most people are able to disassociate the media from the physical England team.