Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

They might be Anti-Brexit but the very common sentiment even from those who supported Brexit is it has been a unmitigated disaster.

People like you and Charles Mason of Cluny Lace (below) need to stop being so negative. Believe in Brexit more and the benefits will flow!

Letter: One company’s bitter experience of Brexit

Good luck to those British companies who want to import from the EU when the post-Brexit customs checks start.

In our case, after a recent audit, HM Revenue & Customs has decided to levy an 8 per cent duty on the return of all the lace that we manufacture in the UK, send to France for dyeing, and then get back for further finishing.

This is backdated over two years to when Brexit started.

We have spent more than 200 years building our business, fought for 30 years against the global textile trend of moving to the Far East and have now been killed off by our own side in a couple of years. We all lose.

Charles Mason, Managing Director, Cluny Lace, Ilkeston, Derbyshire

https://www.ft.com/content/7d2fa6d1-...f-b2c63b301f1c

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

People like you and Charles Mason of Cluny Lace (below) need to stop being so negative. Believe in Brexit more and the benefits will flow!

https://www.ft.com/content/7d2fa6d1-...f-b2c63b301f1c

I’m having a hard time trying to be sympathetic with this case. For a start, where’s the concern with the CO2 footprint he’s generating, sending consignments of his own product to France to get dyed and then transporting it back again? Is there literally nowhere anywhere closer to Derbyshire that could do it?

For seconds, Brexit having been on the cards from the date of the referendum in 2016 and having actually occurred 3 years ago, it’s not as if the likelihood of this happening was unknown. I find it difficult to believe someone who has fought so hard to build and maintain his business was suddenly blindsided by the possibility of import/export tariffs …

… especially when, third, he is so hyper-aware of his industry’s flight to the far east and purports to be taking a stand against it. I find his logic somewhat confusing here. Either he thinks the offshoring of industry is a good thing or a bad thing. Or is it only bad when other people do it? Because it looks to me very much as if he wants to off-shore bits of his business whenever it’s convenient.

In reality, sovereign governments use tariff barriers deliberately to discourage the behaviour this business wished to continue post Brexit. That was entirely foreseeable, and is entirely how regaining control of import/export flows is supposed to work. It sounds very much to me as if an awful lot of special pleading has gone on here, and it has spent a lot of time in court or some other appeals process, and the business has just lost. If the writer of the letter really did bet the entire farm on a different outcome then more fool him.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

I’m having a hard time trying to be sympathetic with this case. For a start, where’s the concern with the CO2 footprint he’s generating, sending consignments of his own product to France to get dyed and then transporting it back again? Is there literally nowhere anywhere closer to Derbyshire that could do it?

For seconds, Brexit having been on the cards from the date of the referendum in 2016 and having actually occurred 3 years ago, it’s not as if the likelihood of this happening was unknown. I find it difficult to believe someone who has fought so hard to build and maintain his business was suddenly blindsided by the possibility of import/export tariffs …

… especially when, third, he is so hyper-aware of his industry’s flight to the far east and purports to be taking a stand against it. I find his logic somewhat confusing here. Either he thinks the offshoring of industry is a good thing or a bad thing. Or is it only bad when other people do it? Because it looks to me very much as if he wants to off-shore bits of his business whenever it’s convenient.

In reality, sovereign governments use tariff barriers deliberately to discourage the behaviour this business wished to continue post Brexit. That was entirely foreseeable, and is entirely how regaining control of import/export flows is supposed to work. It sounds very much to me as if an awful lot of special pleading has gone on here, and it has spent a lot of time in court or some other appeals process, and the business has just lost. If the writer of the letter really did bet the entire farm on a different outcome then more fool him.

He was aware of the potential difficulties from Brexit but it seems to be a very specialised trade with little expertise in the UK

Drapers October 2016
“We are the last lace manufacturer of our kind in the UK and still manufacture in Ilkeston, Derbyshire, with a few complementary French laces. Brexit could be potentially fatal for us. We get everything dyed in France, our yarn is from France and our main export market is into Europe, so I can’t imagine how we can get products back and forth without tariffs. It’s a worry.”

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

He was aware of the potential difficulties from Brexit but it seems to be a very specialised trade with little expertise in the UK

In 1974 something of the reverse was true, as UK-based sugar refiners relied mostly on cane imported from commonwealth countries (Tate & Lyle were the biggest but not the only). European tariffs on cane imports are designed to protect beet producers located predominantly in northern continental Europe (and mainly the Netherlands).

In terms of its effect on the economy as a whole, the tariffs that hit our domestic sugar production back then were vastly greater than those now affecting what is, as you say, a niche product like French lace made in Derbyshire. It sounds to me as if that business would have become unviable several decades ago had we not entered the Common Market when we did.

Thank you, however, for (eventually) providing some necessary context for a very niche reader’s letter than you earlier seemed to be offering as a far broader comment on our post-Brexit tariff regime.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

In 1974 something of the reverse was true, as UK-based sugar refiners relied mostly on cane imported from commonwealth countries (Tate & Lyle were the biggest but not the only). European tariffs on cane imports are designed to protect beet producers located predominantly in northern continental Europe (and mainly the Netherlands).

In terms of its effect on the economy as a whole, the tariffs that hit our domestic sugar production back then were vastly greater than those now affecting what is, as you say, a niche product like French lace made in Derbyshire. It sounds to me as if that business would have become unviable several decades ago had we not entered the Common Market when we did.

Thank you, however, for (eventually) providing some necessary context for a very niche reader’s letter than you earlier seemed to be offering as a far broader comment on our post-Brexit tariff regime.

I'm struggling to understand why the lace attracts duty when we have a free trade deal with the EU.

[Sephiroth]

Climate change, mate.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Always lovely to see Andrew and Ian [Mod Edit - unnecessary crudity removed - repetition of this language will incur infractions] frothing at the mouth over the potential collapse of the U.K. economy.

Still the IMF are very good aren’t they? So they’re probably right….right?

https://www.ft.com/content/60581224-...f-23cb17fd1498

https://www.reuters.com/breakingview...ed-2022-01-25/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...wrong-economy/

https://twitter.com/samanthataghoy/s...EjG2H-W-Bot21g

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-imf-forecasts/

https://www.bruegel.org/comment/imfs-false-confession

Predictions can always be challenged as they've not happened yet.

However, things that have happened like the slump in exports are harder to refute.

UK’s goods exports lowest in G7 following Brexit, study finds

Britain’s performance labelled ‘a disaster’ as red tape hits trade with the EU

Quarterly figures published by the Office for National Statistics in March showed that in the last three months of 2022, UK export volumes, excluding precious metals, were more than 9 per cent below the 2019 pre-pandemic average.

Sophie Hale, trade economist at the Resolution Foundation think-tank, described the UK’s performance as “a disaster”. The drop in goods export volumes marked “a quite substantial fall and it really leaves the UK at the bottom of the G7 pack”, she added.

The ONS data shows the UK had the weakest export performance in the G7, and compares with double-digit rises in Italian and Japanese exports, 4 per cent growth for the US and 2 per cent for Germany.

https://www.ft.com/content/fd35fe46-...2-8d33226dca0d

[TheDaddy]

Someone just said Ireland's GDP per person is now twice that of the UK, this can't be right, we were told Ireland would be screwed if we got a bad deal...

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Someone just said Ireland's GDP per person is now twice that of the UK, this can't be right, we were told Ireland would be screwed if we got a bad deal...

Ireland is fine as in EU UK on orherhand is not and NI set for lot more US investment because they in the EU single market


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2318528.html

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Someone just said Ireland's GDP per person is now twice that of the UK, this can't be right, we were told Ireland would be screwed if we got a bad deal...

To maintain some balance against your Remainer polemic:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...D?locations=GB

Ireland: $100K/capita
Germany: $51K/capita
UK: $47K/capita
France: $44K/capita

Ireland would have been screwed if we had simply walked away from Europe without a deal. Btw, who told us that 'Ireland would be screwed if we got a bad deal'?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

To maintain some balance against your Remainer polemic:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...D?locations=GB

Ireland: $100K/capita
Germany: $51K/capita
UK: $47K/capita
France: $44K/capita

Ireland would have been screwed if we had simply walked away from Europe without a deal. Btw, who told us that 'Ireland would be screwed if we got a bad deal'?

Oh was it only if we got no deal they'd be screwed, bet they're relieved we got one then, imagine what it'd be like for them without one

Perhaps my memory is fuzzy, I'm riddled with virus after all, I do seem to remember blunder truss saying only three men and a turnip would be effected in Ireland which is ironic as our own "king of turnips" has shut up shop because he can't get anyone to pick them, speaking of turnips who was the brexit bellend on C4 this morning blaming corperation tax for astra zenica opening their new plant in poland?

Remainer polemic you say, yes in that I'm in complete favour of us remaining out of the EU, what don't you like, being reminded of your mate deadwood and his chums comments?

[Sephiroth]

Maybe not "remainer polemic" then. But you d choose your points selectively, ignoring the wider picture. So polemic it remains!

As for blunder Truss ... you have a point there.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Maybe not "remainer polemic" then. But you d choose your points selectively, ignoring the wider picture. So polemic it remains!

As for blunder Truss ... you have a point there.

Blunder woman

TheDaddy is right to highlight that he was lied to. Unfortunately, these tactics are now proven to work and Labour are copying them in, as we have seen with the slogans about Sunak.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Someone just said Ireland's GDP per person is now twice that of the UK, this can't be right, we were told Ireland would be screwed if we got a bad deal...

Ireland’s GDP is skewed because it has been running almost like a tax haven to attract large multinationals to set up offices there. Even Eurostat has been known to exclude Ireland when setting out comparative figures.

Ireland’s central bank has published helpful research on how best to understand the country’s economy.

https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/defa...-in-europe.pdf

[1andrew1]

British leg of the Orient Express killed. Who dunnit? Hard Brexit

Belmond, the company that runs today’s Venice Simplon-Orient-Express, has decided to drop the London-to-Folkestone leg of the route because it has become too difficult to cross the border to Calais.

The coach transfer creates an unacceptable risk for Belmond, as there is no way for their passengers to avoid delays crossing the Channel. Travellers, including school coach parties, had to wait up to 14 hours at Dover at the beginning of the Easter holidays two weeks ago, and people also faced queues for Le Shuttle.

Things may get worse, Belmond fears, because the UK and EU are planning new biometric passport checks and extra red tape.

“We’re adjusting operations in 2024 ahead of enhanced passport and border controls,” a Belmond spokesperson said. “We want to avoid any risk of travel disruption for our guests – delays and missing train connections – and provide the highest level of service, as seamless and relaxed as possible.”

Brexit has ended other train journeys as well – Eurostar’s service from St Pancras to Disneyland Paris will finish this summer.

The UK is also losing out on tourists from the rest of the world, according to Tom Jenkins, chief executive of Etoa, the European tourism association. “People are starting to drop the UK as a gateway to a European tour,” he said. “It’s not the only factor, but previously we had been the principal arrival point for people coming to Europe from America, from Japan, and anywhere else.

Brexit has ended other train journeys as well – Eurostar’s service from St Pancras to Disneyland Paris will finish this summer.

The UK is also losing out on tourists from the rest of the world, according to Tom Jenkins, chief executive of Etoa, the European tourism association. “People are starting to drop the UK as a gateway to a European tour,” he said. “It’s not the only factor, but previously we had been the principal arrival point for people coming to Europe from America, from Japan, and anywhere else.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2...-border-delays