Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!

[Fedz]

I know that the ntl STB has an IP - not sure if every STB has an individual IP and or if it's a static IP.

To clarify and please correct me if I'm wrong:

VoD - is to supply a viewer requested programmes eg: NTL VoD
IPTV - is Internet Protocol Tele Vision eg: broadband Internet NOT via a closed cable line as VoD.
Sky+ - is simply a digital satellite receiver with a built-in hard drive.

I compare NTL VOD and SBB as SBB is closest to VoD that Sky has to offer.

Not to detract from my original post and the point that I was making was that NTL VoD is superior delivery system of programmes and or movies as one doesn't need to install any software also a major point is it is delivered instantly on big screen and not like SkyByBroadband (SBB) to PCs where PCs have limited storage and smaller screens and possible bandwidth restrictions not to mention any possible network problems with download from SBB.

Sky+ is different and can't be compared to VoD as all Sky+ is a digital recorder on local hard drive. VoD is from a remote storage.

When NTL launch NTL PVR this no-doubt will also have VoD (as above) and is in my opinion a superior product and delivery system over Sky's Sky+ and SBB.

BskyB (Sky) purchasing Easynet LLU is expected to go through - I aren't going to argue that point but, to say it's widely accepted to happen.

I am predicting: that Sky as they are pushing SBB (similar to VoD via the internet) it will use this purchase of Easynet to deliver their SBB and become and ISP to customers so they can do tiers attached to their SBB.

As Sky can't offer VoD via satellite it will go down the internet route to deliver and the anticipated purchase of Easynet by BskyB (Sky) adds strength to this point.

In a nutshell Sky is taking the less superior route to deliver programmes where NTL VoD is more superior due to speed, delivery and end consumer product.

[Shaun]

You guys want to be careful waht you say about Sky:

They [Sky] are one of the only two companies that the incumbent colossus, BT, fears – the other being Microsoft. Even Bill Gates’ merry little band of nerds are hesitant to trifle with Isleworth’s finest. The saying goes: “When you throw stones at Sky, they bomb your village”.

http://www.netimperative.com/2006/02...y_comment/view

Sky are doing deals right left and centre by the looks of it from that article, Homechoice, UKOnline, Bulldog(??)! Maybe "SkybyWire" will be the next big thing? Probably not but IMHO Ntl just can't provide a TV/Phone/BB services like my current setup.....sad but true.

[Fedz]

I'd ask myself why are Sky doing deals left, right and centre.

Reason could be is they fear being left behind and or do this to subsidise inferior delivery system(s).

Sky can't afford to take the risk and be conplacent.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Fedz

I know that the ntl STB has an IP - not sure if every STB has an individual IP and or if it's a static IP.

To clarify and please correct me if I'm wrong:

VoD - is to supply a viewer requested programmes eg: NTL VoD
IPTV - is Internet Protocol Tele Vision eg: broadband Internet NOT via a closed cable line as VoD.
Sky+ - is simply a digital satellite receiver with a built-in hard drive.

You are correct in all three, but you still haven't explained why IPTV is a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Fedz

I compare NTL VOD and SBB as SBB is closest to VoD that Sky has to offer.

I hear you and you're within your rights to compare a Aston Martin with a rain cloud if you like. Personally i think you're misguided to so, and I think you'll find that the broadcasting industry is also not comparing Sky by Broadband with a VOD service. Why is that?

Originally Posted by Fedz

Not to detract from my original post and the point that I was making was that NTL VoD is superior delivery system of programmes and or movies as one doesn't need to install any software also a major point is it is delivered instantly on big screen and not like SkyByBroadband (SBB) to PCs where PCs have limited storage and smaller screens and possible bandwidth restrictions not to mention any possible network problems with download from SBB.

I agree. NTL's potential VOD offering is amazing. I said it many years ago and they have only just started dabbling (for understandable reasons of cost). I still believe that this is the big unique selling point that cable has over broadcast, even current xDSL (but not for long in the latter as much larger speeds become available).

The problem that any broadcaster has is content. Content is expensive, and it's a careful balancing act to ensure that the right product is available at the right price. As there are no commercials to get in the way of viewing, traditional funding methods need to be found, this means charging per programme, this means far fewer views per programme as people will take less 'risks' in their viewing habits.

NTL's current content is poor. Music videos, expensive movies and even more expensive old BBC sitcoms do not make a complete line-up.

But I still think you're devaluing your own argument by insisting on comparing it to SBB. SBB has only ever been billed as a way of watching some TV/movie clips on your PC. Totally different, and not even on demand anyway (as I have already said).

Originally Posted by Fedz

Sky+ is different and can't be compared to VoD as all Sky+ is a digital recorder on local hard drive. VoD is from a remote storage.

I know some of my posts are long and boring...but if you're going to question me at least do me the favour of reading through them....I was the one who said that I treat my Sky+ box like a VOD service. I use it to record loads of stuff that I wouldn't normally watch 'live' and can filter the wheat from the chaff quite quickly. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT SKY+ IS A VOD SYSTEM, just that I can use it to the same end result personally.

Originally Posted by Fedz

In a nutshell Sky is taking the less superior route to deliver programmes where NTL VoD is more superior due to speed, delivery and end consumer product.

On this last point you speak sense sir! NTL's network is far more suited to high bandwidth on-demand type operations. But the competition from BT and Sky (and a much lesser extent Homechoice, although I can't see them lasting too much longer) will be fierce and the winner will be the one with the deepest pockets and the best content. Right now BT and NewsCorp beat ntl on the pockets. Sky has lots of content, BT keep on telling us how much content they will have...and ntl have some ropey old music videos!

But...and this is the last time I'm going to say this....if ntl pull the rabbit out of the hat and come up with a better system than the others....I will be the first to say so.

I couldn't care less who's system is better than anyone elses. Like most consumers, I care about the cost, the quality of the content and picture and the level of customer service - if ntl do well on all three they will be winning lots of customers. But history (nine years personally) tells me that they are going to struggle on some of those issues.

But one thing is certain, there's no point in comparing SBB with ntl's VOD

[Fedz]

Originally Posted by andygrif

You are correct in all three, but you still haven't explained why IPTV is a bad thing.

IPTV isn't a bad thing but it is an inferior path for Sky to take aside NTL VoD

Originally Posted by andygrif

I hear you and you're within your rights to compare a Aston Martin with a rain cloud if you like. Personally i think you're misguided to so, and I think you'll find that the broadcasting industry is also not comparing Sky by Broadband with a VOD service. Why is that?

I can't help comparing SBB with NTL VoD as sadly that's what Shy have chosen to offer - a rain cloud!

Originally Posted by andygrif

NTL's current content is poor. Music videos, expensive movies and even more expensive old BBC sitcoms do not make a complete line-up.

But I still think you're devaluing your own argument by insisting on comparing it to SBB. SBB has only ever been billed as a way of watching some TV/movie clips on your PC. Totally different, and not even on demand anyway (as I have already said).

NTL VoD is perfectly priced and I mean that in all honesty and with unbias.

NtL have set out VoD menu just nice and everything is in seperater category, you can choose to watch on your TV in an instant from single music tracks to comedy to full length movies and I agree theirs not enough on, theirs never enough and I certainly have this argument about Sky and their PPV and movie channels.

I know the movies are priced well and I compare this price with Sky's PPV price - it's similar.

Originally Posted by andygrif

I know some of my posts are long and boring...but if you're going to question me at least do me the favour of reading through them....I was the one who said that I treat my Sky+ box like a VOD service. I use it to record loads of stuff that I wouldn't normally watch 'live' and can filter the wheat from the chaff quite quickly. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT SKY+ IS A VOD SYSTEM, just that I can use it to the same end result personally.

OK! To clarify VoD is not Sky+ - totally different.

Originally Posted by andygrif

On this last point you speak sense sir! NTL's network is far more suited to high bandwidth on-demand type operations. But the competition from BT and Sky (and a much lesser extent Homechoice, although I can't see them lasting too much longer) will be fierce and the winner will be the one with the deepest pockets and the best content. Right now BT and NewsCorp beat ntl on the pockets. Sky has lots of content, BT keep on telling us how much content they will have...and ntl have some ropey old music videos!

But...and this is the last time I'm going to say this....if ntl pull the rabbit out of the hat and come up with a better system than the others....I will be the first to say so.

I'm not taking these factors into account - I'm comparing NTL VoD with the next best thing Sky has to offer. My Post is regarding delivery method but I have covered price and certainly NTL VoD is not expensive, how anyone can consider it so doesn't know what they are talking about!

Old music is better than new too me as I prefer 70's and 80's and ntl VoD covers that too as well as latest stuff so ... plenty of it but, again we can never have too much

Originally Posted by andygrif

I couldn't care less who's system is better than anyone elses. Like most consumers, I care about the cost, the quality of the content and picture and the level of customer service - if ntl do well on all three they will be winning lots of customers. But history (nine years personally) tells me that they are going to struggle on some of those issues.

But one thing is certain, there's no point in comparing SBB with ntl's VOD

The delivery method is deeply important as it gives the end result to us customers. NtL have it right you can watch VoD on your TV screen and or computer but, Sky's nearest thing is SBB where you have to download, wait, download, wait and then watch on your PC plus the content (programmes/movies) it expire after 30-days!

NtL VoD is far more superior - imagine having a nice widescreen LCD TV and not being able to watch programmes/movies instantly on it but you can with NTL VoD and you can't with SBB - you'll have to make do with your monitor.

Give it time Sky will start charging for this SBB as they'll want their money back for having to buy Easynet LLU so they can move forward but move forward in an inferior way. If Sky customers are happy to make do then good but, I'm not and I want my money'sworth (of investment) out of a company!

[Fedz]

Originally Posted by andygrif

With regards to SBB, there is, however a full review here: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds28064.html which does mention that it is positioned as 'a loyalty bonus'. The same thing is also happening on mobiles from Sky too. That could not be compared to a full-on VOD system either.

No disrespect but, you have to look at the wider picture to understand clearly.

Sky are using SkyByBroadband (SBB) as a path forward to a full blown VoD type delivery method.

Sky can call it a 'loyalty bonus' but, Sky aren't stupid not to use the customers opinion on these methods it's using.

Sky can't offer VoD via it's satellite so is having to look at other methods of trying to deliver VoD. Sky need their own source of delivery method to Sky customers as Sky don't like using 3rd parties and paying money to a middle-man so they buy Easynet LLU and push SBB to customers (free to start with while they get it popular) as a way of moving forward.

The method they are going to use (internet delivery) is inferior to NTL VoD as they are going to require massive bandwidth capacity to deliver hundreds of programmes and movies ...etc via the internet to a possible millions of customers. If these customers are on a bandwidth restricted tier then they are going to pay for delivery that way due to going over bandwidth allowance, the chances are Sky will charge for the service (they won't miss a golden opertunity for more money) plus I think they'll offer customers deals if they move internet service too them (at a later dat/when rolled out) after the buyout of Easynet.

It's going to be very costly and unreliable and one Sky are going to expect customers to cover by subscription.

NTL VoD is by far easier and more reliable and it's here to see and use.

[BBKing]

Interesting article on the Register today touching on all of this and arguing that Sky has nowhere to go but down. Not sure I agree 100%, but it's long and well researched (plenty about return paths and why it's important).

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/17/dont_fear_sky/

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Fedz

No disrespect but, you have to look at the wider picture to understand clearly.

With all due respect, I don't think you've researched your subject at all well. I have worked in the past (at strategic levels) for a company that later became owned by Sky. I do understand the different delivery methods (strategically, if not the inner workings, technically) extremely well. I have also had dealings with VideoNetworks, who operate HomeChoice and with Yes TV in Hong Kong - both of whom operate true VOD services via xDSL connections.

So I do actually know what LLU means to a company like Sky, as it was to Homechoice on a much smaller scale. That's how I'm also able to see the complete disparity between a VOD service and a throw-away computer app.

If you have a look around, there are already operating companies offering true VOD (not P2P, which is what Sky By Broadband is) via a direct xDSL connection. By the end of Spring most of the exchanges in the UK will be offering 8mb+ via ADSL.. Exchange equipment that can had vDSL are alreay being installed. This all has absolutely zero to do with Sky By Broadband.

As you said yourself, it's a flaky bit of P2P software for a computer. Not for your home TV, not for your Sky box. Period.

I don't mean to sound rude, but for someone who claims to know so much about what Sky's plans are, you're remarkabkly uninformed about even the sketchy information that Sky have put out into the public arena, let alone their actual plans.

I might criticise ntl at many waking moments (largely becuase they made my life a misery at frequent opportunities), but where they do something right, I will at least say so. But it seems that we cannot have a sensible and relevant discussion about this as your loathing of Sky (for a reason of leaving a few registry traces on someone else's computer as far as you have told me) is getting in the way.

Nothing more to say from me. But if you ressurect this thread in 12 months from now, you might find that I was right after all.

Night night.

[Fedz]

Sky tell white lies to customers as they say SkyByBroadband (SBB) is a 'loyalty bonus' when it's in fact a trial for Sky VoD - Sky always has ulterior motives behind it's moves.

Customers are fed-up with the same age old repeats month after month so offering SBB with the same as they do on satellite doesn't keep customers happy.

To reinforce my theory:

James Murdoch, BSkyB CEO, said the acquisition will allow the company to find new outlets for its entertainment offerings.
He said in a statement: "Today's offer reflects the exciting opportunities that now exist to combine quality entertainment with significant high-speed connections. Entertainment is at the core of Sky's success...
"We see value for families in moving well beyond just another triple play to offer a new level of connected entertainment and communications services."
It's thought BSkyB may look to turn Easynet into more of a consumer, rather than business, ISP, opening up the potential for BSkyB and Easynet to cross-sell broadband access and video on demand or triple play services to each others' customers.

Source: Silicon.com

---------- Post added at 23:17 ---------- Previous post was at 23:09 ----------

Originally Posted by andygrif

But it seems that we cannot have a sensible and relevant discussion about this as your loathing of Sky (for a reason of leaving a few registry traces on someone else's computer as far as you have told me) is getting in the way.

Leaving physical files that remain active filesharing after you un-install the product from Sky is more than registry entries!

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by BBKing

Interesting article on the Register today touching on all of this and arguing that Sky has nowhere to go but down. Not sure I agree 100%, but it's long and well researched (plenty about return paths and why it's important).

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/17/dont_fear_sky/

written by alex cameron a direct competitor - that article is all about his self promotion.

---------- Post added at 09:34 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------

http://www.digitaltx.tv/

perhaps he should fix his web site first before ripping sky apart.

---------- Post added at 09:35 ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 ----------

"this feature is currently unavailable" - what a ******.

[Downloads]

Originally Posted by Fedz

To reinforce my theory:

James Murdoch, BSkyB CEO, said the acquisition will allow the company to find new outlets for its entertainment offerings.
He said in a statement: "Today's offer reflects the exciting opportunities that now exist to combine quality entertainment with significant high-speed connections. Entertainment is at the core of Sky's success...
"We see value for families in moving well beyond just another triple play to offer a new level of connected entertainment and communications services."
It's thought BSkyB may look to turn Easynet into more of a consumer, rather than business, ISP, opening up the potential for BSkyB and Easynet to cross-sell broadband access and video on demand or triple play services to each others' customers.

Source: Silicon.com

Hah! Well researched

Big picture, yes it's an early attempt at VoD and clearly they don't have a clue.

[etccarmageddon]

if skybyboardband was downloading to our sky box rather than a pc then it might have a use but as it is, it's pointless because your mass market tv viewers do not download to a pc to watch stuff.

[ian@huth]

Forget about who supplies what and how and think about what the consumer actually wants. They want to watch TV content both at the moment and at some future time.

If they want to watch content immediately they are restricted to what each channel is broadcasting now, making a selection from a VOD service such as that provided by NTL or making a selection from what they have previously recorded either by VCR, DVD, PVR (including Sky+), SBB, etc. Viewing previously recorded material means that you can view material that you have decided will be to your liking whereas VOD may not have anything at all available that interests you.

What content is available on VOD? It can be repeats of already broadcast popular material such as Eastenders or more obscure material. If you use VOD to watch repeats at a time other than the live broadcast time you can watch exactly the same content at a time that suits you by recording it on Sky+ or whatever medium that you choose.

I cannot really see what the attraction of VOD is. Using a PVR such as Sky+ gives you the ability to record anything on any channel for later viewing after the live broadcast. You can watch it from the start at any point after the live broadcast starts, even just seconds after it started. You are in control of what is being recorded and when you watch it. With VOD you only have a miniscule choice compared to that available using Sky+. Pre-recorded content on Sky+ on playback is of the same quality as the original broadcast which gives Sky+ an advantage over most other copying methods

The only advantage of VOD that I can see is the ability to watch content that has already been broadcast live that you haven't recorded and which is not being repeated. These days most popular content is repeated and I would imagine that VOD content is mainly of popular programmes.

What content is available on VOD which couldn't have been recorded on Sky+ from the live broadcast? I can list thousands of programmes which can be recorded on Sky+ for later viewing at a time to suit which are not available on NTL's VOD offering.

[Fedz]

Whatever the attraction is of VoD is but, it's caught the eye of Sky also and got them on the quest to provide it! So much so it's have them buy-out Easynet LLU and change to a different method of delivery (not via satellite).

Sky+ is pretty good (from what I hear) but, alot of their Sky+ boxes are dogged by problems (as reported by countless of Sky+ users at other sources).

I have similar set-up to Sky+ but, on NTL, as I have my usual DSTB and a DVD recorder.

Personally, I'd rather have them seperate instead of all-in-one.

The draw to VoD is you don't have to record everything and fill-up your recorders hard drive and or have mountains of DVDs just in case you want to watch it later.

On NTL VoD I watch movies and factual alot, but didn't want to goto the hassle of recording it from weeks/months ago just in case.

If you have foresight and the time to do so then all well and good but, I don't as I work long hours/shifts.

Looking forward to NTLs PVR though

[Chrysalis]

ummm what VOD?