Global warming 'past the point of no return'
20-09-2005, 02:14
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#31
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
Punky, I was going answer your post, but given that apparently this thread has been closed and re-opened in my absence this evening, anything I replied to what you wrote, little of which had anything to do with the topic, would probably only end up with it being closed again and I think the subject of this thread is rather too important for that.
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Originally Posted by david.ewles
A few years ago they said that we were heading for another Ice age??
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And it's very possible that Global Warming will cause the Ice Caps to melt, destabilising the Gulf Stream which could then trigger another Ice Age.
Of course by that time it will be too late to do anything about it...
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20-09-2005, 02:20
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#32
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by Graham
And it's very possible that Global Warming will cause the Ice Caps to melt, destabilising the Gulf Stream which could then trigger another Ice Age.
Of course by that time it will be too late to do anything about it...
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And as the polar caps re-freeze, the salinity of the sea increases, restarting the gulf stream and saving the day *yay*
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20-09-2005, 02:36
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#33
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by Xaccers
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Originally Posted by Graham
And it's very possible that Global Warming will cause the Ice Caps to melt, destabilising the Gulf Stream which could then trigger another Ice Age.
Of course by that time it will be too late to do anything about it...
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And as the polar caps re-freeze, the salinity of the sea increases, restarting the gulf stream and saving the day *yay*
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I suggest you do a little more research into climatology before you start cheering...
From the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution:
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Fossil evidence clearly demonstrates that Earth's climate can shift gears within a decade, establishing new and different patterns that can persist for decades to centuries. In addition, these climate shifts do not necessarily have universal, global effects. They can generate a counterintuitive scenario: Even as the earth as a whole continues to warm gradually, large regions may experience a precipitous and disruptive shift into colder climates.
This new paradigm of abrupt climate change has been well established over the last decade by research of ocean, earth and atmosphere scientists at many institutions worldwide. But the concept remains little known and scarcely appreciated in the wider community of scientists, economists, policy makers, and world political and business leaders. Thus, world leaders may be planning for climate scenarios of global warming that are opposite to what might actually occur.
It is important to clarify that we are not contemplating a situation of either abrupt cooling or global warming. Rather, abrupt regional cooling and gradual global warming can unfold simultaneously. Indeed, greenhouse warming is a destabilizing factor that makes abrupt climate change more probable. A 2002 report by the US National Academy of Sciences (NAS) said, †œavailable evidence suggests that abrupt climate changes are not only possible but likely in the future, potentially with large impacts on ecosystems and societies.ââ ¬ÂÂÂ
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http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/...hange_wef.html
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20-09-2005, 03:12
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#34
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
Graham, you do realise that uses the word "paradigm" don't you?
The fact is that the earth has been at much higher temperatures before, and at much lower ones.
We won't actually know the outcome of global warming for certain until it actually happens.
Just think of the geological and archeological discoveries that await us under the ice of Antartica....if society is still in a state to care by then.
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20-09-2005, 11:04
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#35
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
If it is melting at the speed that they are saying it is, why ain;t we up there snowboarding and surfing the ice waves man 
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20-09-2005, 13:58
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#36
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by Xaccers
Graham, you do realise that uses the word "paradigm" don't you?
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It's not a criminal offence...! 
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The fact is that the earth has been at much higher temperatures before, and at much lower ones.
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Yes, I know.
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We won't actually know the outcome of global warming for certain until it actually happens.
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Yes, I know.
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Just think of the geological and archeological discoveries that await us under the ice of Antartica....if society is still in a state to care by then.
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Exactly, *IF* it is still in a state where they're in a position to care, rather than just curse their ancestors for taking a laissez-faire attitude of "well, we don't *know* it's going to happen, so let's not bother even trying to do anything about it... 
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20-09-2005, 22:40
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#37
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by Graham
And it's very possible that Global Warming will cause the Ice Caps to melt, destabilising the Gulf Stream which could then trigger another Ice Age.
Of course by that time it will be too late to do anything about it...
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As far as I can see, the scientists are pushing extrapolation to the limits (whether it be looking back OR forwards.)
There just isn't enough hard evidence on past climate to allow future climate to be predicted. They even struggle to manage a 5-day forecast, so what chance they'll get anything this far in the future anywhere near right?
Also, if the fear mongers are to be believed, then it's already too late...
One of the problems is that we have no idea of knowing how the climate would have developed over the last 150 years if we hadn't had our input to it.
Whatever happens, somewhere on Earth some(thing) will survive, somehow and it will all start over again.
And no doubt the scientists of this future era will be just as baffled by the 'evidence' they find as current scientists are by what they've found.
P.S. Excuse me if I have overlooked any previous argument, but I can either catch up & read everything, or put in my 2p worth - there's just not enough time in the day now to do both.
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20-09-2005, 23:50
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#38
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior
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Originally Posted by Graham
And it's very possible that Global Warming will cause the Ice Caps to melt, destabilising the Gulf Stream which could then trigger another Ice Age.
Of course by that time it will be too late to do anything about it...
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As far as I can see, the scientists are pushing extrapolation to the limits (whether it be looking back OR forwards.)
There just isn't enough hard evidence on past climate to allow future climate to be predicted. |
Tree ring evidence? Ice Cores? Layers of ocean sediment? There seems to be a fair bit of hard evidence from where I'm looking.
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They even struggle to manage a 5-day forecast, so what chance they'll get anything this far in the future anywhere near right?
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This is disingenuous. It's not a matter of whether it will rain over your house next Friday, it's the effect on the whole system.
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Also, if the fear mongers are to be believed, then it's already too late...
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Which is not an argument for doing nothing.
[quote]One of the problems is that we have no idea of knowing how the climate would have developed over the last 150 years if we hadn't had our input to it.
Which is also not an argument for doing nothing!
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Whatever happens, somewhere on Earth some(thing) will survive, somehow and it will all start over again.
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Which is *still* not an argument for doing nothing!
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And no doubt the scientists of this future era will be just as baffled by the 'evidence' they find as current scientists are by what they've found.
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Or maybe they'll think "these people had the chance to at least *try* to do something. Why the hell didn't they...?"
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20-09-2005, 23:54
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#39
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
Global warming the true cause
http://www.show.me.uk/site/news/STO873.html
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20-09-2005, 23:56
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#40
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by david.ewles
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Well that's a load of....
No, it's just *too* easy! 
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21-09-2005, 02:14
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#41
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by yesman
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Well, if it's past the point of no return that means we can't do anything about it, so it now doesn't matter if we waste resources and drive powerful petrol-hungry cars.
Excellent news!
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21-09-2005, 02:34
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#42
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by Graham
It's not a criminal offence...! |
It bloody well should be
It's times like this that I miss Jerrek and his "but why should america's economy suffer to save the world?" statements. I could do with a laugh.
If we are past the point of no return (but hang on, the earth used to be a giant snowball and it returned from there...) we should just start preparing for the worst.
So, how would you lot prepare given that we don't know whether we'll have a heatwave or an ice age?
Buy an airconditioner and an electric blanket?
Take a crash course in sailing?
Start "sleeping with the fishes" to try and give your children gills?
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21-09-2005, 02:52
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#43
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by david.ewles
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What a load of dung we all know its sheep 
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21-09-2005, 21:48
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#44
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
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Originally Posted by Graham
Tree ring evidence? Ice Cores? Layers of ocean sediment? There seems to be a fair bit of hard evidence from where I'm looking.
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It's only 'hard' evidence if you accept their interpretation of things which are in no way hard/fast proof. They just suggest the way the climate might have been.
And tree rings don't go that far back. If we're looking for an Ice Age, then consider that the last one was between 10000 and 50000 years ago!
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Originally Posted by Graham
This is disingenuous. It's not a matter of whether it will rain over your house next Friday, it's the effect on the whole system.
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Quite - so MUCH more difficult, hence so more likely to be wrong.
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21-09-2005, 21:56
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#45
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Re: Global warming 'past the point of no return'
How can we use the past, it ammuses me when they say
"every 100,000 years this happens" HOW DO WE KNOW the Earth is evolving as we are, it could change that to 1,000,000 years?????
As for global warming causes next it till be me farting hard after a good kebab.
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