2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester - Page 3

danielf · 18-09-2012, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

R.I.P.

<snip>

To be honest, it's not clear to me that this would have ended differently had the officers been armed. They walked into an ambush involving a gun and grenade. I'm not sure how you defend yourself against that.

18-09-2012, 20:01

you arm all Police then any petty criminal will have a gun

Will21st · 18-09-2012, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

To be honest, it's not clear to me that this would have ended differently had the officers been armed. They walked into an ambush involving a gun and grenade. I'm not sure how you defend yourself against that.

Maybe it wouldn't have ended differently,maybe it would... my point is to give the police the tools they need to do the job.
I know that german police attend burglary calls with their guns drawn,as do French police,US police and probably other forces,too.... maybe that is what is needed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

you arm all Police then any petty criminal will have a gun

No,they won't. However petty crooks already carry knives,Samurai swords and what not.... what do cops have to go up against such lethal weapons? Baton? Spray?

Derek · 18-09-2012, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

you arm all Police then any petty criminal will have a gun

Balls. Do all petty criminals carry a knife or baseball bat now? Does every petty criminal in Northern Ireland carry a gun?

99.99% of the time the Police will never need to use or draw it but for that 1 times you need it it's better the Police have a gun rather than end up dead in the street.

Will21st · 18-09-2012, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek

Balls. Do all petty criminals carry a knife or baseball bat now? Does every petty criminal in Northern Ireland carry a gun?

99.99% of the time the Police will never need to use or draw it but for that 1 times you need it it's better the Police have a gun rather than end up dead in the street.

Amen!

**Mick** · 18-09-2012, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

R.I.P.

How anyone can still argue for an unarmed police force in this country is beyond me....
This isn't the Britain of Dixon's of Dock Green,and it isn't the 1920's either.In fact,in the 20's coppers could take a firearm on patrol if they felt the need to...

R.I.P PC Bone / R.I.P. PC Hughes

Problem is with the 'Arm the Police' argument is that you can still have Armed Police, it will not stop Criminals on their path to serious crime. America is a fine example of this.

But I do agree Police do not seem appropriately equipped. To attend any kind of incident with a CS Spray and a plastic stick I wouldn't feel safe with just these Aids.

Will21st · 18-09-2012, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Problem is with the 'Arm the Police' argument is that you can still have Armed Police, it will not stop Criminals on their path to serious crime. America is a fine example of this.

But I do agree Police do not seem appropriately equipped. To attend any kind of incident with a CS Spray and a plastic stick I wouldn't feel safe with just these Aids.

Why always have the US as an example... most other European countries are armed.And No,it may not stop them on their path to serious crime,but it can stop them dead in their tracks while committing it.

It can also save an officers life,or a Mop's life. Sometimes it is just a tool to make a lawbreaker comply.

Gary L · 18-09-2012, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

It can also save an officers life,or a Mop's life. Sometimes it is just a tool to make a lawbreaker comply.

I honestly don't think 'Stop or I'll shoot' tactics will work in this country. simply because we've never had it previously.

Will21st · 18-09-2012, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

I honestly don't think 'Stop or I'll shoot' tactics will work in this country. simply because we've never had it previously.

Really? So when you star at the business gun of a Glock 17 you will continue with whatever you're doing? I don't think so....

**Mick** · 18-09-2012, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

Why always have the US as an example... most other European countries are armed.And No,it may not stop them on their path to serious crime,but it can stop them dead in their tracks while committing it.

Because it is the US where the Police carry guns all the time and it shows there that it doesn't matter if you Arm Police in the same way they do in the US, because it will not stop hardened criminals.

But I am also saying that sending Police with little defensive Aids to any kind of incident where it not known how potentially dangerous it may be is also not right.

Police should have the equipment to do their jobs and be able to save themselves from danger.

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There were Two Rainbows over Mottram tonight where these Officers were killed.

Facebook group has over 60,000 likes:- http://www.facebook.com/RipFionaBoneAndNicolaHughes

Sirius · 18-09-2012, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

you arm all Police then any petty criminal will have a gun

So would you if you was a copper be willing to face a ******* armed with a

Knife
axe
samurai sword
Gun

and have nothing to defend yourself with other than a bloody stick and some pepper spray, i know i would not ???

**Hugh** · 18-09-2012, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

Maybe it wouldn't have ended differently,maybe it would... my point is to give the police the tools they need to do the job.
I know that german police attend burglary calls with their guns drawn,as do French police,US police and probably other forces,too.... maybe that is what is needed?

No,they won't. However petty crooks already carry knives,Samurai swords and what not.... what do cops have to go up against such lethal weapons? Baton? Spray?

Strange - in all the years I lived and worked in Germany, I never heard of this....

danielf · 18-09-2012, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Because it is the US where the Police carry guns all the time and it shows there that it doesn't matter if you Arm Police in the same way they do in the US, because it will not stop hardened criminals.

But I am also saying that sending Police with little defensive Aids to any kind of incident where it not known how potentially dangerous it may be is also not right.

Police should have the equipment to do their jobs and be able to save themselves from danger.

I think the US is an inappropriate comparison as everybody owns guns there. In most of Europe, the police carry guns but gun ownership by civilians is severely limited. Police on the continent don't run around with their guns drawn half the time. It's actually pretty rare for them to draw their gun.

Will21st · 18-09-2012, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Because it is the US where the Police carry guns all the time and it shows there that it doesn't matter if you Arm Police in the same way they do in the US, because it will not stop hardened criminals.

Sorry,you're wrong...
Robbers,burglars,rapists and what not get shot all the time before they can do more damage or get away.That applies for Europe as well.
Again,why the States as an example? German,French,Italian,Spanish cops are armed at all times as well.In fact German police cars will have an MP5 routinely in the boot.Italian Carabinieri carry MP's,too. I just got back from Rome two weeks ago and had good chats with them.,wasn't threatening at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

But I am also saying that sending Police with little defensive Aids to any kind of incident where it not known how potentially dangerous it may be is also not right.

Police should have the equipment to do their jobs and be able to save themselves from danger.

Yes,agreed.So what tool should that be,in your opinion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

There were Two Rainbows over Mottram tonight where these Officers were killed.

Facebook group has over 60,000 likes:- http://www.facebook.com/RipFionaBoneAndNicolaHughes

Nice touch!

**Hugh** · 18-09-2012, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

Sorry,you're wrong...
Robbers,burglars,rapists and what not get shot all the time before they can do more damage or get away.That applies for Europe as well.
Again,why the States as an example? German,French,Italian,Spanish cops are armed at all times as well.In fact German police cars will have an MP5 routinely in the boot.Italian Carabinieri carry MP's,too. I just got back from Rome two weeks ago and had good chats with them.,wasn't threatening at all.

Yes,agreed.So what tool should that be,in your opinion?

Nice touch!

The German statistics seem to disagree with you...

Link

Quote:

German cops fired only 85 bullets in 2011, and 49 of those were warning shots. Of the 36 shots fired at suspects, 15 people were injured and 6 were killed