Jewish population on the increase

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Er, yes I would, but then, you and I do have differing views on genocide don't we?

Oh very good Xaccers. Very grown up.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

When you consider that at the beginning of the 20th century there were only between 6-11million Jews in the world, murdering 6 million was about half of them.

Over the space of 60 to 70 years there's been a population explosion, most people would expect jews to be part of that, no reason why they wouldn't.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

I think whatever grievances you have with any ethnic group, you'd never want to see 6 million wiped out, be that 1 percent or 50 percent or 90 percent of the population. I've talke d to relatives of concentration camp victims and that sort of suffering is something Id never wish upon anyone.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Oh very good Xaccers. Very grown up.

Stating things as they are Russ, you've made it clear that you have different views on genocide than I do.

Over the space of 60 to 70 years there's been a population explosion, most people would expect jews to be part of that, no reason why they wouldn't.

You appear to have misunder stood the passage you quoted.
What I said was that at the begining of the 20th century, optimistic estimates put the global Jewish population at 11 million.
Therefore to suggest that murdering 6 million of them by the end of WW2 is "not what you'd call a massive figure" is somewhat distasteful to me, mostly because I know a few survivors of the death camps, and also because of my personal views on genocide. This further demonstrates that we have differing views on the matter.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Stating things as they are Russ, you've made it clear that you have different views on genocide than I do.

Whatever, if you say so.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

You appear to have misunder stood the passage you quoted.
What I said was that at the begining of the 20th century, optimistic estimates put the global Jewish population at 11 million.
Therefore to suggest that murdering 6 million of them by the end of WW2 is "not what you'd call a massive figure" is somewhat distasteful to me, mostly because I know a few survivors of the death camps, and also because of my personal views on genocide. This further demonstrates that we have differing views on the matter.

My next-door neighbour is a holocaust survivor - I have listened to his stories. As for my comments being distasteful to you, this would probably be just due to your sensitivity to such matters as well as you taking my post out of context - something else that I know you have certain views on doing.

I cannot believe the vile anti-semitic posts on this topic! Honestly, it is sickening. They even seem proud of their ignorance.

[Mr_love_monkey]

Originally Posted by TraxData

I have my reasons though.

So did Hitler, doesn't make it right.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

I cannot believe the vile anti-semitic posts on this topic! Honestly, it is sickening. They even seem proud of their ignorance.

They are a small minority thankfully whose views don't reflect widely on our society. Maybe they're just ignorant of their ignorance! Whatever the truth, their statements serve their cause no good since all they do is remind the compassionate and tolerant majority of horrific genocide which should never be forgotten.

[Russ]

So what is it about the Jews that makes people view them with such distain and mortal intolerance? Not aimed at anyone in this thread but there must be certain stereotypes and images of them which people take so personally.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

So what is it about the Jews that makes people view them with such distain and mortal intolerance? Not aimed at anyone in this thread but there must be certain stereotypes and images of them which people take so personally.

Well, they were blamed for killing your saviour (just look at the number of xians even today who won't admit he was Jewish or that christianity is a jewish sect), that did a lot of damage and was used to justify applying restrictions on them such as what work they could do. Ironically those restrictions made them quite wealthy, which bred further jealousy.
They generally keep themselves to themselves and are viewed as different, as such they fall into the role of scapegoat rather well.

[Osem]

Asians were Idi Ami's 'Jews' for the same reasons weren't they?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Well, they were blamed for killing your saviour (just look at the number of xians even today who won't admit he was Jewish or that christianity is a jewish sect), that did a lot of damage and was used to justify applying restrictions on them such as what work they could do. Ironically those restrictions made them quite wealthy, which bred further jealousy.
They generally keep themselves to themselves and are viewed as different, as such they fall into the role of scapegoat rather well.

I have no idea why Christians would have anything against Jews - yes I believe they played a part in Jesus' death but that was meant to be, they were following what was written. A kind of "if it wasn't them then it'll be someone else". I have no issue in acknowledging that Chistianity has roots in Judaism.

But as you well know, it's not just some Christians who have issue with Jews so my question still stand.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Many muslims dont like Jews because of what is happening in palestine. Without getting into a argument/indepth discussion about the West Bank, Jordan, Israel, blah dee blah deee blah, it is difficult for people to like a 'race' that is inflicting so much damage injustice and hurt on their own.

[piggy]

Originally Posted by TraxData

Admin Edit

some opinions are best kept to oneself......<edit Rob: deleted>

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I have no idea why Christians would have anything against Jews - yes I believe they played a part in Jesus' death but that was meant to be, they were following what was written. A kind of "if it wasn't them then it'll be someone else". I have no issue in acknowledging that Chistianity has roots in Judaism.

But as you well know, it's not just some Christians who have issue with Jews so my question still stand.

Personally Russ I think a lot of the anti semitic feelings in the past basically boils down to plain old fashioned jealousy, generally Jewish people are fairly industrious and hard working, and obviously reap the benefits of their toil. It seems to me a lot of more ignorant people didn't like this.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I have no idea why Christians would have anything against Jews - yes I believe they played a part in Jesus' death but that was meant to be, they were following what was written. A kind of "if it wasn't them then it'll be someone else". I have no issue in acknowledging that Chistianity has roots in Judaism.

But as you well know, it's not just some Christians who have issue with Jews so my question still stand.

For centuries Jews were viewed as having caused his death.
Doesn't matter if such beliefs were illogical as it was "meant to happen" the church used it as a means to control the people by giving them someone to blame for their ills.
Just as the Daily Jackboot does now with immigrants and muslims, and people in SA are doing with people from Zimbabwe.
Similarly (as I understand it) from Islam's point of view, the Jews were responsible for killing Isa and betraying Allah.

Another way to think about it is this; a new jewish sect is created, it splits off some decades later with the jewish acceptance of another messiah (yeah, that one wasn't up to the task either).
You now have a new "version" of the religion, which by people practicing the old version, is being told it is wrong.
The new "version" grows and becomes dominant, it is able to do something about the persieved insult by the continued practice of the old version. Remember, most of the people who rose up the ranks of the church did not have religious backgrounds, it was family tradition. Also, being power hungry as the church is, other religions are a threat, if someone has the option of not being under the control of the church by joining another religion, that's not in the church's interest.
By not converting to christianity, the Jews are saying christians are wrong, likewise, by not converting to Islam, both xians and Jews are saying Islam is wrong.
This breeds resentment, especially when times get hard, and its better for leaders to have their followers hate another group of people than themselves or the leaders.