Muslims to march in London

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

But he would be if he marched in the same rally....

That's just it, I don't read it as that.
Dab said:

Just because some chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.

Which I read as :
Just because some [muslims] chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they [muslims in general] are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.

After all, he was talking about muslims in various countries in the same paragraph, stating that they all have different beliefs.
I can see why you and Russ understood it the way that you have, and I have to say you could well be right.
Perhaps Dab can come back and clarify?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Is any Britain still alive that ended the trade in human flesh, seeing as we are casting stones into history lets remember it was Britain that ended slavery and slavery has never been legal in Britain, also if Britain hadn't had an Empire would those countries be better of, for a start they would almost certainly have been colonised by another European country, whose rule would have been considerably worse than that of our own, judging by their other colonies

Indeed....

---------- Post added at 00:06 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

Originally Posted by Xaccers

That's just it, I don't read it as that.
Dab said:


Which I read as :
Just because some [muslims] chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they [muslims in general] are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.

I see your point but that just means that he is talking out of his a*se because no one joins a rally if they don't believe in what it's aims are

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by SMG

Well, I`m surprised to hear you say that. Last time, (& the 4 times before) I was posted to NI, loyalists would call Britain "our" country with a certain amount of determination & pride. In fact, they would fight you for saying different. Only the repo`s called it "your" country. I didn't know it had changed so much so I mentioned it this afternoon to my bro in Larne, as far as he knew, things hadn't changed.

Which proves my point regarding secular attitudes, thanks.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I see your point but that just means that he is talking out of his a*se because no one joins a rally if they don't believe in what it's aims are

Remember, his post was in response to SMG who was talking about muslims in general, not those who marched, so I would suggest the [muslims in general] I interjected refers not to the marchers but to muslims who did not participate, extending as far as muslims around the world.

Hence my point that if some sudochristian bigots went on a march calling for all non-christians to be deported, it doesn't mean that all christians (as in all christianas in the world) sympathise with the march.

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

That's just it, I don't read it as that.
Dab said:


Which I read as :
Just because some [muslims] chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they [muslims in general] are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.

After all, he was talking about muslims in various countries in the same paragraph, stating that they all have different beliefs.
I can see why you and Russ understood it the way that you have, and I have to say you could well be right.
Perhaps Dab can come back and clarify?

Yep thats exactly what I mean.

Just had dyslexia in my typing fingers lol (no offence to any sufferers)

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Indeed....

---------- Post added at 00:06 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

I see your point but that just means that he is talking out of his a*se because no one joins a rally if they don't believe in what it's aims are

Here ill break it into Seasame Street English


The nasty Muslims that go marching.....

The good Muslims Stay at Home.....

Good Muslims no like what nasty Muslims march for, they no go to march

Not all Muslims bad Muslims!


Only skinheaded one thought single celled people think all Muslims bad, they Bad with capital B for Country, they should be taken and beaten and thrown in big pit of jaggy things.

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Originally Posted by SMG

I'm not saying all Muslims are a pain in the ****, just the minority radicals. Immigrants & asylum seekers are constantly in the news, a few days ago 4 asylum seekers were jailed for murder, one got 30 years. Its not as if its a one off either. Whatever the Brits did years ago, we've paid for it since, & we are all living a good lifestyle off the back of it.

Dabhand, what nationality are you, obvious not British, otherwise you wouldn't use the words "Looking into your country's history will reveal that".

Im Scottish :P Most of you are English :P

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by DABhand

Here ill break it into Seasame Street English


The nasty Muslims that go marching.....

The good Muslims Stay at Home.....

Good Muslims no like what nasty Muslims march for, they no go to march

Not all Muslims bad Muslims!

I get the idea of what you meant to say......
......and what about the slavery b*llocks you were spouting?

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Well it's one side thats bombing us here so excuse me if we get a bit 'one sided' about it as well....remember 7/7, 9/11, Bali, Lisbon?

Remember the slaying of red indians for the lands in America, remember the slaying of scottish men,women and children to make way for sheep, remember the cruel taskmasters who would beat the slaves in the colonies etc.

Yes they may have happened many years ago, its history, so was the terrorist attacks (which were terrible).

Its like the chicken and the egg what came first. In this case who started the whole war first.

The white man on his boat and claiming to be all superior?

Or the non-white man who defended his country and family? (which has escalated to what it is today)

Yeah, right....So why are they marching in the same demonstration?

Did they really, did that include Tibetan Monks also? Arabs? Muslims? Egyptians? Syrians?

NO, Arabs are not muslims, Tibetan Monks are not muslims either. Muslims have a seperate religion like a Protestant and Catholic church, both of those are different.

Who is the agressor?! Is anyone alive in the UK today responsible for the slave trade that occured in Africa 100+ years ago? How the hell are we the agressors in those terms?
btw.....there wouldn't have been any major slave trade if Africans and arabs weren't perfectly happy to capture and sell black Africans to white slavers......Africans and arabs were complicit in that slave trade. I suggest you remove those pc blinkers from your eyes m8....

You sure that the arabs (maybe you mean Muslims according to you since they all march together) did it on their own free will? Remember English colonies in those days were cruel.

And the Dutch and Spanish where the main slavers of the time, the Dutch operating most of Africa.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by DABhand

You sure that the arabs (maybe you mean Muslims according to you since they all march together) did it on their own free will?

There was a thriving slave trade in Africa long before Europeans arrived on the scene first run by Africans, capturing members of a rival tribe and removing them through slavery.
In Byzantine times, having an African slave in the middle east was a sign of wealth.

Perhaps this link will help?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African..._within_Africa

[SMG]

Bit of confusion here. My previous post said I was referring to Muslims who, for one reason or another, appear on the news, ranting & raving, or committing crime. I do not say all Muslims are a pain in the ar*e.

Mr Angry. Your reply explains nothing. Except the possibility that you are republican.

The Daddy. Quite right, Women did march for peace. However, they didn't rant, chant, burn flags, or call for anyones death.

Dabhand. Your British m8. I'm British, (English), like it or not, its now politically correct. If you check your passport. It wont say "Scottish citizen" nor does mine say "English citizen". They say "British citizen".

[Mr Angry]

Sorry SMG, you seem to have misinterpreted the jist of my reply.

Acknowledging your incorrect assertion that there are / were only two facets to NI society (loyalist & republican) you stated that "loyalists would call Britain "our"." I'm merely referencing the fact that, by your own example, secularism in the form of "ours" and "theirs" is not a good thing. I think 30 odd years of murder pretty much proves my point.

"Mr Angry. Your reply explains nothing. Except the possibility that you are republican."

I'm afraid you're "conclusion jumping" there.

[SMG]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Sorry SMG, you seem to have misinterpreted the jist of my reply.

Acknowledging your incorrect assertion that there are / were only two facets to NI society (loyalist & republican) you stated that "loyalists would call Britain "our"." I'm merely referencing the fact that, by your own example, secularism in the form of "ours" and "theirs" is not a good thing. I think 30 odd years of murder pretty much proves my point.
I'm afraid you're "conclusion jumping" there.

I'm sorry m8, I don't think I am. My initial comments related to Dabhands reference to the word "Your", in the context of him belonging to Great Britain. Its my opinion that when you belong to, or are part of, then you would refer to that as "Our". If you do not belong, or are not part of it, then you refer to it as "Your".

On your second point of sectarianism, you know that the 2 major players are the loyalists & the republicans. I don't remember many newscasts which regularly referred to other, minor groups. You know as well as I do, that this conflict resulted in many deaths, probably people you know, certainly friends I knew. I had a sweaty ar*e on many an occasion. Right or wrong, segregation, sectarianism creates conflict. Civil war, people arguing, fighting, killing. In that regard I fully agree with you that "it is not a good thing". Perhaps we should "Agree" to "Disagree" with a few points.

"30 odd years of murder" certainly shows that conflict is not good, however, it has no relation to my ascertains regarding the use of the words "Your" & "Our". Like I said, its my opinion. If we all had the same views, we`d have nowt to talk about, nowt to argue, fight or kill for, & a lot of lives would be spared.

My views & opinions appear to be hard, but thats only with living a very outgoing life, & witnessing the suffering & deprivation inflicted on innocent people. You can watch killing on TV anytime. When you witness it first hand, it affects you in ways you couldn't imagine. Life takes on a whole new meaning. Back in the 70`s, I watched the parades in NI, first hand. I heard the ranting, chanting, & death threats spouted by both sides. It led to more conflict & killing.

I see Muslims marching, ranting, chanting, shouting death threats, & I don't want to see it anymore. I don't want to keep hearing about it, & I don't want to hear any more about Islam. I just want to live in peace. So my personal message is simple, whoever you are, black, white, or somewhere in between. Whatever your religion, Christian, Muslim etc, keep it to yourself, stop inflicting it on others, stop inciting conflict & leading my country into civil war.

[AdamD]

I have nothing against muslims, but all this protesting, riots and whatnot against things like the cartoon and other things they get "offended" over, are only going to stir up more hatred for their "kind" (so to speak)
Or rather, their religion, beliefs etc.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by DABhand

Remember the slaying of red indians for the lands in America, remember the slaying of scottish men,women and children to make way for sheep, remember the cruel taskmasters who would beat the slaves in the colonies etc.

No, I don't remember because I wasn't alive when that happened. Neither was anyone else atm....I'll say this in Sesame street English:
We aren't responsible for what people did in the olden days....please don't try to hold me to account for something that somebody elses ansestors did (I'm not English). For that matter, don't hold the living English responsible either, they didn't do it!

Yes they may have happened many years ago, its history, so was the terrorist attacks (which were terrible).

But it's very recent history m8, the difference is that the terrorists paymasters and organizers and future recruits are still alive....

Its like the chicken and the egg what came first. In this case who started the whole war first.

Well it probably wasn't the victims of the many past and future muslim terrorist bombers.....

...and I think I'll leave it to Xaccers to remove your rose tinted glasses with his history lesson about slavery.....

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------

Originally Posted by SMG

I see Muslims marching, ranting, chanting, shouting death threats, & I don't want to see it anymore. I don't want to keep hearing about it, & I don't want to hear any more about Islam. I just want to live in peace. So my personal message is simple, whoever you are, black, white, or somewhere in between. Whatever your religion, Christian, Muslim etc, keep it to yourself, stop inflicting it on others, stop inciting conflict & leading my country into civil war.

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

No, I don't remember because I wasn't alive when that happened. Neither was anyone else atm....I'll say this in Sesame street English:
We aren't responsible for what people did in the olden days....please don't try to hold me to account for something that somebody elses ansestors did (I'm not English). For that matter, don't hold the living English responsible either, they didn't do it!

Neither did most of the muslims who did or did not march on that day. You cant have your cake and eat it too btw. Which brings us to...

But it's very recent history m8, the difference is that the terrorists paymasters and organizers and future recruits are still alive....

Well it probably wasn't the victims of the many past and future muslim terrorist bombers.....

...and I think I'll leave it to Xaccers to remove your rose tinted glasses with his history lesson about slavery.....

Not all muslims are terrorists, the march wasnt about pro terrorism either, it was about other issues, mainly how others perceive them to be terrorists.

So if you wish to perceive them as them being so, then I can perceive you as an english subject being a slaver, football holligan, lager lout, unemployable, and lots more. Not fair huh to be named all those.

Whats good for the goose...


Unfortunately these days you have extremist groups, not only one one side but on both.

You have your radical and religious groups on one side, and you have your old fashioned we are the superior race and bigosts on the other.


Xaccers: Yes there was slave trading way back since man could walk, but the example I was giving was 18/19th century history, and at that time the Dutch at the end of the 18th were the power in Slaves. So much so that their influence still lingered in South Africa for centuries.


My point about the english slavers was this, I dont see the reason why people whose own historical background was of such a manner should stand on a soap box and complain of another race of people who are protesting about things.

Why because slavery was abolished in England just under a century ago, does that make the English better? Or can say and do what they like against other races? No. ((for your Info the Scottish did not have a Slave Trade))

That is why the world is in such a state as it is, instead of people treating others as equals they are looked upon as inferior, due to their religions, their color, their education and so forth.

SMG: I may have a British Passport, but I am a Scottish Citizen and this is where I was born, if I choose to be called Scottish then that is my choice, as is if I were to wish to be called British then I shall.

But Id rather be called a Scottish Citizen than British, thanks all the same

[Mr Angry]

Hi SMG,

I respect your opinion - but is there not a glaring anomaly between

Originally Posted by SMG

Right or wrong, segregation, sectarianism creates conflict. Civil war, people arguing, fighting, killing. In that regard I fully agree with you that "it is not a good thing".

And

Originally Posted by SMG

Whatever your religion, Christian, Muslim etc, keep it to yourself, stop inflicting it on others, stop inciting conflict & leading my country into civil war.