Should they be published in the UK?

[cnewton2k]

and my little 2 bit

yes this is cool, people would be kicking off like this if it was jesus, but o no once again the muslin cause trouble !!! Do i need to say July 6th !!!

Did the cristians kick off NO

i am so sick of PC gone mad it is unreal

And yes i know a lot of ya will disagree with me but he yo that my views.

PS sorry about the spelling i am dyslesic*

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I know ... whilst generously lacing your illustration with a lot of sub-Dan Brown hokum.

Anyway, you know I'll climb into the ring with you on this subject any time. Just not in this thread.

Back to the Muslim moral outrage please.

Did I say anything untrue?


Of the three religions, Islam is one which problably falls apart quickest under scrutiny, and is the one which is least tolerant of scrutiny.

Jews are able to question why should they not eat pork when these days its safe, or why they can't enjoy a nice cup of tea with milk while they eat roast beef.
Christians are able to ask whether the catholic way of worshiping is the correct way, or if they should set up their own church and worship how they see fit.

With these abilities, christianity and judaism are able to survive such questioning, and therefore tollerate it from people outside their religions.

Islam on the other hand doesn't tollerate much in the way of questioning it's beliefs.
As such many muslims who have not been exposed to the satyrical/questioning ways of the west see such action as insulting, especially if they have been told that the west is anti-islam (remember, many in the middle east have no idea that muslims exists in america for instance).

[Stuart]

Well, I personally am glad the "man" who dressed up as a suicide bomber has apologised and been put in jail (although, oddly, in last night's Evening Standard, he said he was just dressed normally.

Anyway, I know someone directly affected by the bomibings (she was in the building next to door to the bus that exploded). I haven't spoken to her recently, but it can not have been easy to see some **** dressed as a bomber on TV.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Paul M

A little premature there Chris, we haven't moved yet.

which provider you go with? germany is very good value for ded servers, I have a few there.

[Orior]

Interesting stuff there from the Xaccers.

I once worked with a devout Muslim and completely innocently asked her one day, did the mountain move to Mohammed or did Mohammed move to the mountain. She looked at me like I was Frankenstein and ignored the question.

Suffice to say, I'm still waiting on an answer.

Originally Posted by Chris T

In all seriousness this is quite off topic. Can we get back to the topic of cartoons, satire and protest please.

Once again, I have to say I believe it was entirely on-topic.

The whole issue of the cartoons/protest is that it would seem as if Muslim was pitted against Christian/Jew etc., yet all the while, it would seem that we ought to have more in common. Christians and Jews recognise this among themselves, but for some reasons a (large) section of the world's Muslims have been blinded to this.

And not by Mohammed or the Koran/Hadith.

It is up to Muslims to recognise that some (many?) of their imams are not what they seem...

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

It is up to Muslims to recognise that some (many?) of their imams are not what they seem...

Therein lies the problem.
Those same such "corrupt" imams have managed to obtain power in many countries, and as the main source of religious teaching (in most cases the only source) they purpetuate their continued elevated positions.
If anyone questions them, they are branded a heretic.
This makes it nigh impossible to obtain enough of a gathering against them in order to over throw them.

[Wakar]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Therein lies the problem.
Those same such "corrupt" imams have managed to obtain power in many countries, and as the main source of religious teaching (in most cases the only source) they purpetuate their continued elevated positions.
If anyone questions them, they are branded a heretic.
This makes it nigh impossible to obtain enough of a gathering against them in order to over throw them.

Totally agree 100% with you there. Its not only the Imam's that we have to get rid of, but all the other corrupt people that rally with them, need to be removed too. Until this does not happen then it will be hard for all Muslims that want to live a peaceful life and abide by the laws in the respective countries they live in.

The latest on this is that here in the UK they're trying to get legislation changed.

In this BBC story:

Muslim scholars who gathered for an emergency meeting have called for changes to the law to stop images of the Prophet Muhammad being published.

And specifically:

Mr Saddiqi said they had concluded they wanted the Race Relations Act modified to give Muslims the same protection as Sikhs or Jews.

I wasn't aware that the RRA had anything in it regarding publication of cartoons...

And they also want to clamp down on the PCC's voluntary code of practice. Not that I quite understand how you can tighten up a voluntary code of practice...

Of course, when he says this:

"What kicks can you get out of seeing this caricature, except to insult the Prophet of Islam?"

The assumption on their part is that the insult was the intentional reason for publication.

But I have seen no proof that this is the case. Even the re-publications were not intended as an insult, but as a statement of support for freedom of speech.

It just goes to show that they have absolutely no understanding of Western culture, where satirical cartoons have sat alongside intelligent observation of the world, for a long time.

[Xaccers]

Has there been any more news on the suggestion that cartoons shown around the middle east by extremist muslims from Denmark are not those which were published, but much worse ones done by someone else and being used to stir up anti danish feelings?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Has there been any more news on the suggestion that cartoons shown around the middle east by extremist muslims from Denmark are not those which were published, but much worse ones done by someone else and being used to stir up anti danish feelings?

Not that I've seen.......in fact, afaik the original sh*t stirring cleric refused to say where he had obtained them from....but was happy to pass them off as having been published in the Danish paper.

[punky]

Have you got a link to this Xaccers/Ramrod? Cheers

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

Have you got a link to this Xaccers/Ramrod? Cheers

There's a bit (but not much) here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4693292.stm

Originally Posted by bbc

The Jyllands-Posten cartoons do not include some images that may have had a role in bringing the issue to international attention.

Three images in particular have done the rounds, in Gaza for example, which are reported to be considerably more obscene and were mistakenly assumed to have been part of the Jyllands-Posten set.

Edit: and there's wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jylland...ns_controversy

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Danish Muslim clerics tour the Middle East
Unsatisfied with the reaction of the Danish Government and Jyllands-Posten and feeling provoked additionally in particular by a televised interview with Dutch member of parliament and Islam critic Hirsi Ali, who was received by Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, and by the situation of Muslims in Denmark in general, which they perceived as racist and condescending, a group of Danish Muslim clerics from several organisations set out for a tour of the Middle East to present their case and ask for support.[13]

For this purpose a 43-page dossier was created.[14]. It consists of several letters from Muslim organisations explaining their case, multiple clippings from Jylland Posten, multiple clippings from Weekend Avisen[2], and some additional images that, according to the dossier's authors, have been sent to Muslims in Denmark, and were indicative of the rejection of Muslims by the Danish[15]. Some claim that the group of clerics has misrepresented their origin[16] [17]. On February 1 BBC World incorrectly claimed that one of the additional images had been published in Jyllands-Posten. [18]

Among the leadership of the group were Imam Ahmad Abu Laban of the Islamisk Trossamfund and Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the Danish-based European Committee for Prophet Honouring.[19] Danish Sheik Rais Huleyhel was named head of the delegation and signed the petition letters. Among the people the group claims to have met on their visit to Egypt were: The General Secretary of the Arab League Amr Moussa, the Egyptian Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa and the Sheik of Cairo's Al-Azhar university Mohammed Sayed Tantawi and the Egyptian foreign office.

[Ramrod]

They really have no right to be this upset over some cartoons, not in the aftermath of 9/11, 7/7, Bali, Madrid and now this

George W Bush has given details of what he said was a foiled al-Qaeda plot to fly a plane into the tallest building on the US west coast.....Planning began in October 2001, but it was derailed in early 2002 "when a South East Asian nation arrested a key al-Qaeda operative", Mr Bush said.

It was finally thwarted in the summer of 2003, when the suspected head of JI, an Indonesian known as Hambali, was arrested in Thailand.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

Originally Posted by punky

Have you got a link to this Xaccers/Ramrod? Cheers

Here you go m8....interesting reading if it's true.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

They really have no right to be this upset over some cartoons, not in the aftermath of 9/11, 7/7, Bali, Madrid and now this

That is a bit of a sweeping generalisation Rammy - as a religious group, Muslims have every right to be upset if these cartoons break a specific 'guideline' within their tradition (ie not producing a representation of Muhammed).

TBH, I feel that using examples such as 9/11 or the London bombings is somewhat disingenuous - these weren't particularly done in the name of Islam, but as a reaction to the western worlds involvement in the middle east. Using these examples does seem to tar all Muslims with the same brush which, in my opinion, is simply wrong.