[Merged] NTL Increasing BB Speeds Late Summer 2004

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Bill Goodland

Dear Mick,

Thanks for writing. Aizad has asked me to reply to you on his behalf.

I'll bet he has.

Originally Posted by Bill Goodland

Many apologies for not getting back to you sooner - I hope you'll understand that we do get a fair amount of correspondence and it can take time to respond to each letter.

Yeah ok, whatever.

Originally Posted by Bill Goodland

I'm glad that the visitors to the cableforum website are pleased with our planned speed increase. This is the third time we've increased customers' speeds (you may recall we increased our 128k service to 150k and our 512k service to 600k), underlining the good value of cable broadband.

Not quite true Mr Goodland

The 600k was always 600k in original ntl areas, it was only 512k in the 'CoCo' areas, all ntl did was bring the ex C&W areas up to the same standard as offering one (faster) speed to one set of your customers, is quite simply-wrong.

Originally Posted by Bill Goodland

At this point I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t intend to increase our guidance on data usage †“ which is 1gb/day

Now there's a surprise.

Originally Posted by Bill Goodland

(although as Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ve frequently said before, we wonââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t contact customers who download more than this occasionally). We only contact continuous, very heavy downloaders who are likely to impact network performance †“ and in those cases ask customers to moderate their use.ââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢

And just how many have you contacted exactly, because judging by the amount of people who are on oversubscribed UBRs etc, there must be an awful lot of those 'heavy downloaders' you refer too?

Originally Posted by Bill Goodland

On the subject of data downloading †“ you may also have seen that many other ISPs have now introduced not just guidelines, but strict caps on data use. BT, Freeserve/Wanadoo, Telewest, Virgin and Tiscali are all now offering capped services, with others likely to follow.

That's nothing but PR BS/spin Goodland-the fact that you are trying so desperately to cover up, is the one that no ntl customer has a choice of whether they are capped on their usage or not.

Pipex (for example) offer a range of services-some with caps, some without, & yet again ntl seem not to give a to$$ about giving the customer a choice-in exactly the same way that you force people who take out your DTV packages to take your phone line-pathetic.

http://www.solo.pipex.net/xtreme-sol...8cd3cae5117c2f

Originally Posted by Bill Goodland

I hope this is useful information.

It's not-it's typical ntl BS.

Originally Posted by Bill Goodland

Kind regards,

Bill Goodland
Director, Internet.

Kind regards

Neil
Director/Co Owner Cable Forum & www.nthellworld.co.uk
(ntl BS translater)

Goodland's reply is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to hoodwink ntl customers by totally distorting the facts.

Let's not forget this clown is the man who though that ntl customers didn't need to know about the cap originally as it was 'too technical'

No wonder he was part of an internal 'reshuffle' not long after the cap fiasco.....

[etccarmageddon]

Bill might reply that...

We have increased our Broadband user base by 360,000 in the first quarter of this year and now have 1.2 million BB customers. Therefore, dont the numbers speak for themselves? Almost 30,000 new customers on BB per week.

[ppolo99]

Whens all this gonna be upgraded? i looked on all sites and cant find info on a date :/ Is it happening now?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by ppolo99

Whens all this gonna be upgraded? i looked on all sites and cant find info on a date :/ Is it happening now?

When is 'what' happening?

If you are referring to the speed increase, then all ntl have said is 'late summer'.

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by Neil

yet again ntl seem not to give a to$$ about giving the customer a choice-in exactly the same way that you force people who take out your DTV packages to take your phone line-pathetic.

1st and foremost, at least he replied which, if I remember correctly, was the topic of a major post not so long ago having a go at another senior member of ntl for not relpying, the position he is in does dictate that it isn't easy to give a direct relpy 5 mins after sending.

Also would like to point out that people can take a phone line only, and have been able to do this, without taking a DTV package, for around 2 years now.

Give the guy some credit, at least he did relpy, at least he did try and answer the questions set, and you shoot him down.

If you know the relpy will consist of "ntl BS" why does anybody bother mailing senior members?

I don't understand how it has got to this point though i think this has become .

You seem to be changing it into a "cap" thread, when it was never intended to become this...... same old story though, most bb related discussions turn into cap related issues, this is a step by ntl (for whatever reason you beleive to be true) to give the customer an increased speed at no extra cost. Is that a bad thing??

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

<snip>
Also would like to point out that people can take a phone line only, and have been able to do this, without taking a DTV package, for around 2 years now.
<snip>

Aaah, but taking DTV without a phone line. Or offering ISDN so I can switch my phone lines over to NTL. They can't do that can they.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

1st and foremost, at least he replied which, if I remember correctly, was the topic of a major post not so long ago having a go at another senior member of ntl for not relpying, the position he is in does dictate that it isn't easy to give a direct relpy 5 mins after sending.

He replied eventually-which is very different.
Mick sent the mail several times, & each time was ignored.

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

Also would like to point out that people can take a phone line only, and have been able to do this, without taking a DTV package, for around 2 years now.

I think you may have missed the point, I/we know you can take a phone line without DTV-But can you get DTV without a phone line? (No)

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

Give the guy some credit

What for? Replying to an email that has been continually ignored?

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

at least he did relpy

Eventually, yes.

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

at least he did try and answer the questions set

No he didn't, he tried to BS his way out with 'fact's that were (at best) misleading

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

and you shoot him down.

I couldn't have 'shot down' an honest, & open reply could I?

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

If you know the relpy will consist of "ntl BS" why does anybody bother mailing senior members?

Because there are some that do a good job, & care about customers (Goodland is not one of them though)

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

I don't understand how it has got to this point though i think this has become .

Not realy, this thread is about the increased speeds, our mail(s) to ntl were about the cap effect following this speed increase (something which they neglected to deal with)

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

You seem to be changing it into a "cap" thread, when it was never intended to become this...... same old story though, most bb related discussions turn into cap related issues,

But this is cap related whatever way you look at it-what's the point of a speed increase if all it achieves is that customers hit the cap that bit faster?

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

this is a step by ntl (for whatever reason you beleive to be true) to give the customer an increased speed at no extra cost. Is that a bad thing??

See above.

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Aaah, but taking DTV without a phone line. Or offering ISDN so I can switch my phone lines over to NTL. They can't do that can they.

You can have tv without a phone line, but it's pointless as the phone line is included in the price of the DTV pack.

Ntl do not make any money on the DTV, so what would be the point of offering the DTV pack alone from a company point of view? That's it though, it is a company, it is here to make money and it cannot do that on dtv which is why the phone line is "bundled" in with it. What's the point of a company existing if they don;t make money?

Oh well, we asked if the cap would change and got the answer (no). I'm not really worried about the rest of the letter - pretty standard spin stuff. I wonder if he will bother replying in the future if he sees this.

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by Neil

I think you may have missed the point, I/we know you can take a phone line without DTV-But can you get DTV without a phone line? (No)

Yes, but is is not worthwhile as the price of the phone is bundled in with the DTV price. again, in ntl's defence, see above post, ntl do not make money out of DTV, what would be the point from a company perspective, of offering a service that doesn't generate money? It's pointless, which either means a)don't do DTV (not going to happen) or b) put the phone line in with it and bundle it in the price.

If you were the boss, and be honest, what would you do? offer a non profitable service, or a profitable service?

Originally Posted by Neil

What for? Replying to an email that has been continually ignored?

If it has been continually ignored, how did yoy get hold of this reply?

Originally Posted by Neil

I couldn't have 'shot down' an honest, & open reply could I

To be honest I think it would have been shot down whatever the response.

NTL BS... how can you say to me he isn't telling the truth based on fact's he's given? Ok, so if this is BS, and he came back with a non BS relpy, who's to say, if you didn't like what it said, that it wouldn't just be put down as ntl BS anyway? No matter what the reply, I knew the old NTL BS comments would come out, and I cannot see any relpy that ntl may send, treated in any other way. To this I'd expect you to say "but they only talk BS", if this is the case why waste time even discussing it?

Originally Posted by Neil

Because there are some that do a good job, & care about customers (Goodland is not one of them though)

Thank you, at least is is acknowledged that some of us do a good job (haha myself included!!! )

Originally Posted by Neil

But this is cap related whatever way you look at it-what's the point of a speed increase if all it achieves is that customers hit the cap that bit faster?

Ok I agree but, but it's becoming more cap orientated than speed increase : good or bad? orientated.

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

Ok I agree but, but it's becoming more cap orientated than speed increase : good or bad? orientated.

Agreed, I did not want to turn this thread into another cap debate, I only contacted ntl on some clarification on the current 1GB cap limit. I was not asking for ntl to remove the cap, we all know its here to stay. I only asked because I think it needed to be asked and given that the highest speed is rising to 1.5MB, would the 1GB cap still be applied at this speed. You get nowhere if you do not ask. So I asked, it took a few attempts, but one thing I do not do is give up too easily.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

You can have tv without a phone line, but it's pointless as the phone line is included in the price of the DTV pack.

Ntl do not make any money on the DTV, so what would be the point of offering the DTV pack alone from a company point of view? That's it though, it is a company, it is here to make money and it cannot do that on dtv which is why the phone line is "bundled" in with it. What's the point of a company existing if they don;t make money?

Are you serious - NTL cannot turn a profit on DTV? Whats that about? So only phone call contribution and BB provision are profit generating services they offer. Do Sky really charge them that much for programming access? They pass the increases straight on (well once they have had time to process them).

I wonder what level of penetration the DTV product needs to make money? Or does the supply of complimentary boxes mean it never will!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

Yes, but is is not worthwhile as the price of the phone is bundled in with the DTV price. again, in ntl's defence, see above post, ntl do not make money out of DTV, what would be the point from a company perspective, of offering a service that doesn't generate money? It's pointless, which either means a)don't do DTV (not going to happen) or b) put the phone line in with it and bundle it in the price.

The 'point' (as with any business), would be to offer the (wage paying) customer a choice, rather than force the phone line on them because their other product doesn't make enough money (DTV)-How rude is that.

Customer A)-"I'd like to buy rent this Ford Fiesta please.
Salesperson-Ok, but you will also have to rent this other car too, as the Fiesta doesn't make us any income"

How daft does that sound?-But that is the same scenario that you are trying to justify, that ntl operate.

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

If you were the boss, and be honest, what would you do? offer a non profitable service, or a profitable service?

I wouldn't offer a non profit making service-that's just bad business sense, & to force your customers into paying extra is just as poor.

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

If it has been continually ignored, how did yoy get hold of this reply?

I did say Mick got a reply eventually.

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

To be honest I think it would have been shot down whatever the response.

Not at all, I would not have 'shot it down' if the answers had been honest, upfront, & not tried to make a play on words.

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

NTL BS... how can you say to me he isn't telling the truth based on fact's he's given? Ok, so if this is BS, and he came back with a non BS relpy, who's to say, if you didn't like what it said, that it wouldn't just be put down as ntl BS anyway? No matter what the reply, I knew the old NTL BS comments would come out, and I cannot see any relpy that ntl may send, treated in any other way. To this I'd expect you to say "but they only talk BS", if this is the case why waste time even discussing it?

Ok-you've read the reply from Goodland, & my points about it-do you think the reply was honest, open, & not at all trying to mislead?

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

Thank you, at least is is acknowledged that some of us do a good job (haha myself included!!! )

Never duggested otherwise.

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

Ok I agree but, but it's becoming more cap orientated than speed increase : good or bad? orientated.

All relevant IMO.

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Are you serious - NTL cannot turn a profit on DTV? Whats that about? So only phone call contribution and BB provision are profit generating services they offer. Do Sky really charge them that much for programming access? They pass the increases straight on (well once they have had time to process them).

I wonder what level of penetration the DTV product needs to make money? Or does the supply of complimentary boxes mean it never will!

Deadly serious i'm afraid. Ntl make as little as 4% on DTV which mostly goes on the cost of providing the service (boxes, sending the signal etc)

Sky take most of the money, as they hold the leases on all of the channels, this is one of the reasons it tool ntl so long to gain access to sky sports Xtra as sky were after too much for it.

[SMHarman]

Why don't they just stick two fingers up to the government and sky and pull out, or are they contractually obliged to send DTV down the cable.