how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING

[Doofy]

I think this thread is getting way out of hand openly flaming members of this forum isn't good for anyone IMHO. VM really have made a complete cock up with this one, it cannot be just a coincidence that they implement TSM just as they go to 20mb really was a dumb move on there part. A hell of a lot of areas cannot sustain a constant 10mb let alone 20mb. So people leave there downloads (illegal or not makes no difference what you download) till after midnight and then the complaints will begin cos everyone is hitting it at the same time and the speeds are crap. TSM is there to try and make the network cope with all the increased bandwidth that is going to be used so everyone has a better internet experience, fine by me but at the end of the day VM really should have made sure they could supply the required bandwidth before selling it. The demand is there but the supply clearly isnt isn't in some areas. I really don't care about TSM or 20 mb but if my connection goes to pot because VM cannot supply my service what i pay for and they agreed to then i will complain, same as when they get it right i say so i certainly will not vehemently defend a company that is at best unable to cope with the problems that they are experiencing and will continue to experience no matter how much TSM is implemented.

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

And do you have proof that everyone who downloads from P2P downloads illegal material?

This from the person who's pretty much denounced everyone who disagree's with STM *must* be a bandwidth hogging, warez downloading thief!

Originally Posted by dontpannic

Infact don't worry about it, don't waste your "precious" bandwidth finding out. I am just going to walk away. I couldn't care less what you or anyone else uses their connection for. And don't patronise me. I know a lot more than you think.

My daddies bigger than yours LOL

[samuel]

Originally Posted by Paul

Why don't we start a campaign asking bandwidth abusers to use their connections responsibly instead?

Best post I've read for ages. Hear Hear

[helmutcheese]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

Right, for the final time.

IT IS A SPEED RESTRICTION! YOU CAN STILL DOWNLOAD AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE!

That probably still won't register with most people, but you have to stop saying its a limited service - it's not!

You really like to get screwed over, you are clueless ands ISP's love users like you that take it all lying down and still pay for more.

Learn not to type in non SHOUTING TEXT, I aint blind, shows how much a idiot you are anyhow.

The current service IS LIMITED be it amount or speed.

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------

Originally Posted by samuel

Best post I've read for ages. Hear Hear

Not many users hear like Paul, your one of few, I think you need to go read up on why the network cant cope with 10meg nevermind 20meg, it has nothing to do with this so called "5%" of heavy users.

I give you 2 hints:

1) Oversubsription

2) Profits not used to upgrade network, bare min spent to keep it running, Just.

[dontpannic]

Originally Posted by helmutcheese

You really like to get screwed over, you are clueless ands ISP's love users like you that take it all lying down and still pay for more.

For crying out loud, WHO is being screwed over? The people who deserve to be screwed over!

Learn not to type in non SHOUTING TEXT, I aint blind, shows how much a idiot you are anyhow.

DO NOT call me an idiot. As I said previously I know a lot more than you think I know. Don't let my age put you off. In fact don't call me an idiot when you are missing out words from your sentence!!!

The current service IS LIMITED be it amount or speed.

Yes, I can admit that the service has a minor limitation, but VM do not advertise an unlimited service. They advertise unlimited downloads. So please show me some hard evidence that shows that a user has been blocked from downloading any data during peak hours. I'm going to be waiting but I know for a 100% fact that you will not be able to provide the evidence that the ASA would require to lodge a complaint with VM for false advertising!

[samuel]

Originally Posted by helmutcheese

You really like to get screwed over, you are clueless ands ISP's love users like you that take it all lying down and still pay for more.

Learn not to type in non SHOUTING TEXT, I aint blind, shows how much a idiot you are anyhow.

The current service IS LIMITED be it amount or speed.

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------



Not many users hear like Paul, your one of few, I think you need to go read up on why the network cant cope with 10meg nevermind 20meg, it has nothing to do with this so called "5%" of heavy users.

I give you 2 hints:

1) Oversubsription

2) Profits not used to upgrade network, bare min spent to keep it running, Just.

Err - I think you are actually wrong on this one. The network can cope with 20meg - try and read up with how a cable network actually works and you might understand it better. I know it's not something you are taught in schools, but you should be able to find out somewhere

[jubbi]

I thought I'd just add my opinion to this debate.
I would not have a problem with shaping if the limits were reasonable. 750MB on my 4Mb connection is nothing. the latest command and conquer demo is 1.2Gb. 450MB over the limit. The same can be said about a demo on xbox live. The limits are too low. I think 5Gb for a 4Mb connection (per night) is fair.
If virgin really want to be a media giant they should let us watch more than 45 minutes of HD content on an evening before butchering your speed. You can stream high def content well at 4Mb but trying it at 2Mb is very difficult.
The thing I object to most is the fact that it has been imposed without any kind of consultation with users and without dropping the price as it is a restricted service now. I used to recommend cable to everyone who could get it, but not anymore. It's not half as apealing as it used to be.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

For crying out loud, WHO is being screwed over? The people who deserve to be screwed over!

That'll be just about everyone that pays them money then

[helmutcheese]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

For crying out loud, WHO is being screwed over? The people who deserve to be screwed over!



DO NOT call me an idiot. As I said previously I know a lot more than you think I know. Don't let my age put you off. In fact don't call me an idiot when you are missing out words from your sentence!!!

Yes, I can admit that the service has a minor limitation, but VM do not advertise an unlimited service. They advertise unlimited downloads. So please show me some hard evidence that shows that a user has been blocked from downloading any data during peak hours. I'm going to be waiting but I know for a 100% fact that you will not be able to provide the evidence that the ASA would require to lodge a complaint with VM for false advertising!

Talk sense or shut up, and sure I make typos but I dont type with the CAPLOCK on and at least users with half a brain can see the typos and still make sence of the postings.

---------- Post added at 15:37 ---------- Previous post was at 15:36 ----------

Originally Posted by samuel

Err - I think you are actually wrong on this one. The network can cope with 20meg - try and read up with how a cable network actually works and you might understand it better. I know it's not something you are taught in schools, but you should be able to find out somewhere

Actually the network cant cope because there are too many users now, so you need to go read up not me, VM/NTL got greedy.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by helmutcheese

1) We ARE limited no matter what anyone inc the Mod says, the fact is if I drive on the M1 and am made to leave it after 5miles cause of roadworks then
I'm limited on my use of the M1, in the same sense as if I can use the M1 from start to finish but there is a speed restriction of 50MPH, its still a limit imposed on me.

Actually, I was arguing it wasn't an extra limit, as by buy 20 meg service, you are already limited by speed, and all shaping does is slow downloads. Why do you mentioned being made to leave the M1? If the autorities forced you to slow down after you had driven so many miles, you'd have a point, but they don't.

2) This constant figure of 5% of high users its crap, there is a report on this forum or the other big forum showing the bottom/middle/high end users, the high end are approx 5% and do not take up the whole system, the middle average "Joe 6 Pack" user consumes most of the networks traffic, and at the end of the day the high end users had the same habits while we were on 512K, then 1meg, then 2meg, then 3meg, then 4meg and then 10meg while it was good for a period of time before NTL merger with TW-BY (takeover IMO).

Where is this report then? Bear in mind that (admittedly years ago), I spoke to someone who actually had access to the bandwidth usage reports that NTL use (the actual reports generated by the network hardware) and he said roughly the same as VM do now.

You have your ISP to blame for takiing on more and more custmers in areas that were at limit of users for the design of the network, now most if not all UBR's are oversubscribed, a expression you didnt hear till recently and you can also read on these forums about how they dont dig deep and speed the profits on upgrading the network, they run it with a bare minium of a budget. (think it was yesterdays news)

While I agree that Virgin Media could be spending a lot more on the network, how do you know that most (if not all) UBRs are oversubscribed?

Originally Posted by supercyber

man what is that, totally bogus, u sure u can compare the service with cars and train?

the government dont sell the cars!!!!!!! but however is VM own network and its service and sales.

The analogy is valid because both networks (the Road and VMs) have fixed capacities. In both cases there are far more users than they can cope with. In both cases, it is not economically or physically practical to expand the network enough so that everyone can max out their usage.

[dontpannic]

Originally Posted by helmutcheese

Talk sense or shut up, and sure I make typos but I dont type with the CAPLOCK on and at least users with half a brain can see the typos and still make sence of the postings.

Don't tell me to shut up. This is my final post on this thread, I can't be bothered to respond to personal attacks on me.

Actually the network cant cope because there are too many users now, so you need to go read up not me, VM/NTL got greedy.

No company in the world is going to offer a service they cannot keep up. I've got a constant 20meg connection here at the moment, you can't be telling me that the service I have got is due to the network "not coping". Really you should read up on the facts about this, and in fact any other cable technology.

And also learn how to treat others with respect, not telling me I'm an idiot and telling me to shut up.

So buh-bye all, I've got my opinion, and I know that Virgin is providing me a very good service, throttling or not.

[helmutcheese]

Shut up , you are going to blow a bloodvessel and you are the one who started the crap talk then like most "Internet Rambos", tries to make yourself look like the victim, you said in 1 post we are not limited, then a few posts later you admit we are limited in a way, some contradiction IMO.

Before Oct 2006 I was also on a great A1 at Lloyds service.

P.S, You obv have anger issues going by large TEXT and red smilies, you could relieve some of that pressure by getting a G/F or downloading some Pr0n.

F.A.O Staurt the Mod, the report on users bandwidths was either in a thread here or on other forum Digitalspy, its a few weeks now so no idea what you could use as keywords to search for it, the "Average Joe 6 Pack" makes up most users and so most of the bandwidth, there has always been a % of heavy users that showed no ill effects till recently on 10meg, it was fine uptill and at start of 10meg and yes its due to oversubscription on my UBR as I have been told so by VM 2nd Line as I stated before in threads.

The part about profits not being used to upgrade network was front page news on here or forum mentioned above with heading something like " VM payup and stop whining".

Edit: hXXp://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=576217

I see today the OP had admited he made errors and has now corrected them, I am just reading it myself.

[dontpannic]

Originally Posted by helmutcheese

Shut up , you are going to blow a bloodvessel and you are the one who started the crap talk then like most "Internet Rambos", tries to make yourself look like the victim, you said in 1 post we are not limited, then a few posts later you admit we are limited in a way, some contradiction IMO.

Before Oct 2006 I was also on a great A1 at Lloyds service.

P.S, You obv have anger issues going by large TEXT and red smilies, you could relieve some of that pressure by getting a G/F or downloading some Pr0n.

Give it a break now yeah? I'm fed up of you thinking you are the big "I am".

We aren't limited in the sense that I meant it, we are limited in the fact of speed, but then you are anyway with internet servers slow uploads so quit your whining. I don't think I'm an "internet Rambo", I just think you have issues which somehow make you "better" than everyone else.

I don't have anger issues, and I'm leaving now. I can't be bothered to discuss this issue with people like you who have one opinion and thats it. You are not even considering other peoples points of view, which is useless on a discussion board.

[helmutcheese]

Goodbye

[pmdelany]

There is so much wrong with the way this has been brought in I wish VM would reconsider, but I doubt they will.

1) Their information page on this blatently lies, when it says only the top 5% will be affected, when really it's everyone over the limit, so could be 100% of people.

2) If they are so keen on targeting the top 5% then why don't they, they must know who the people are who constantly max out their connections.

3) Despite peoples attempts to deny otherwise, the service is limited, if on my 4Mb link I could download 40GB in a day (I don't it's just a guess) then as I no longer will be able to my service is being limited and I am not getting the service I paid for. It is incorrect to say "But the downloads are unlimited", because again they are not as I would be unable to get as many downloads done in the time, they too are therefore limited.

4) The cap limits are too small but also done over too short of a timescale, almost everyone will at some point want to download something large which will put them over the limit for the evening, it would be better for example if it only applied if your weekly average was over the limit.

5) If their network can't handle 20Mb then they shouldn't offer it, I assume it can handle 10Mb for everyone all of the time if that's what they are dropped to when exceeding the limit.