Black Lives Matter

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Was savilles plaque grade 2 listed?

A grade 2 listing lessens the acts?

[Rexz]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Nobody says it will fix everything, it does show however that we're more aware as a society of the wrong doings that occurred.

No one is asking people to feel ashamed, we're being asked to think and to teach ourselves about the difficulties that fellow members of the human race face on a daily basis.[COLOR="Silver"]

You really think explaining to someone how we became who we are from the slave trade will receive admiration or settle the race issue? This will never be a dropped issue, regardless of how many statues you pull down/deface or history you try to 'explain'.

The whole BLM movement in itself was inherently racist. To fight inequality it should benefit all races. Empowering one race does not bring about equality, it drives a huge wedge right through the middle. I've seen the argument "but today we are talking about black lives..."... the last time I looked, there was more than just black people in this world who are still currently oppressed or persecuted because of their race, religion or culture.

I can already see signs of racism being acceptable if its against white people.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/...ng-up-22167457

"The difference there is these white characters are an empowered group, so it's actually OK to make a comment on them."

[Carth]

How about all land 'owned' by the native American Indians being handed back to them, along with all the mineral rights and profits made since they were 'stolen' from them.
Burn all the books and films and destroy all statues proclaiming 'how the west was won' against those ignorant savages that stood in the way of the great expansion of civilisation

Eradicate all mention of the Middle East Crusades, burn the flags and knock down the castles

I'm pretty sure Shakespeare won't come out of it too well either.

I'm on a roll here, I think I'm starting to get into this lark, good fun isn't it

*go me, the rebellious activist for truth and consequences*

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Rexz

You really think explaining to someone how we became who we are from the slave trade will receive admiration or settle the race issue? This will never be a dropped issue, regardless of how many statues you pull down/deface or history you try to 'explain'.

The whole BLM movement in itself was inherently racist. To fight inequality it should benefit all races. Empowering one race does not bring about equality, it drives a huge wedge right through the middle. I've seen the argument "but today we are talking about black lives..."... the last time I looked, there was more than just black people in this world who are still currently oppressed or persecuted because of their race, religion or culture.

I can already see signs of racism being acceptable if its against white people.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/...ng-up-22167457

"The difference there is these white characters are an empowered group, so it's actually OK to make a comment on them."

Again, no one says it will settle the issue, but it's a beginning. BTW this is not something we need to explain, this is something we need to educate ourselves on. (I mean this collectively, not as individuals in CF)

BLM perhaps contains a small quantity of racism against whites however demonstrations across the world have been inclusive and tolerant to the most degree.

Of course, there will be minority in any movement that try to twist the agenda by radicalisation or by militarisation. But that doesn't mean to say we should allow that to taint our view.

Use the house on fire analogy. Does the fire brigade go to the house thats burning first or three doors up to make sure they're OK?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

<snip>. . however demonstrations across the world have been inclusive and tolerant to the most degree.

Funny that, cos most of what I'm seeing are 'famous' people and those in official positions bowing down and touching their forelocks in case they get called racist for not complying

[Rexz]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Again, no one says it will settle the issue, but it's a beginning. BTW this is not something we need to explain, this is something we need to educate ourselves on. (I mean this collectively, not as individuals in CF)

BLM perhaps contains a small quantity of racism against whites however demonstrations across the world have been inclusive and tolerant to the most degree.

Of course, there will be minority in any movement that try to twist the agenda by radicalisation or by militarisation. But that doesn't mean to say we should allow that to taint our view.

Use the house on fire analogy. Does the fire brigade go to the house thats burning first or three doors up to make sure they're OK?

That house on fire analogy has been used too much. You could turn it around easily and say, does a fire brigade try to stop a bush fire, or does it go further ahead to prevent it spreading somewhere else. Writing an analogy to try to explain a situation like this is a lazy way of trying to win an argument.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Rexz

That house on fire analogy has been used too much. You could turn it around easily and say, does a fire brigade try to stop a bush fire, or does it go further ahead to prevent it spreading somewhere else. Writing an analogy to try to explain a situation like this is a lazy way of trying to win an argument.

Not really, you may not like the analogy and that of course is entirely your prerogative. However that's the analogy that's been used by the black staff that report into me.

Calling anyone lazy for trying to explain their issues using an analogy because it doesn't suit your narrative is poor form.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

A grade 2 listing lessens the acts?

The act of vandalism, no it increases the impact of it

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

George VI - the last Emperor of India. To be removed from all past coins, all portraits to be made face to the wall; all newsreel with that racist Churchill to be purged.

Relocating a statue of a slave-trader to a museum is not the same as purging newsreel of a Prime Minister.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Relocating a statue of a slave-trader to a museum is not the same as purging newsreel of a Prime Minister.

oh yes it is . .


ooops sorry, wrong pantomime

[Rexz]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Not really, you may not like the analogy and that of course is entirely your prerogative. However that's the analogy that's been used by the black staff that report into me.

Calling anyone lazy for trying to explain their issues using an analogy because it doesn't suit your narrative is poor form.

Well it is lazy, because you have written it to express your view. It is written in a way that shuts down argument against it, but with just a few change of words I have re-written it to support my argument. It bears no contextual input into any argument.
Also 10/10 marks for using race to bolster that analogy. As if a black person using the house burning analogy somehow makes it more valid.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Rexz

Well it is lazy, because you have written it to express your view. It is written in a way that shuts down argument against it, but with just a few change of words I have re-written it to support my argument. It bears no contextual input into any argument.
Also 10/10 marks for using race to bolster that analogy. As if a black person using the house burning analogy somehow makes it more valid.

I'm not using race to bolster anything, merely, I've taken and expressed the view that's been expressed to me by my staff, because their words are more valid then mine at this time.

To you it may have no relevance but to others that are directly impacted by it, it does.


What exactly are you so fearful of?

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

The act of vandalism, no it increases the impact of it

The transport of 84,000 slaves and subsequent death of 18,000 (ish) would balance that out then.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

The transport of 84,000 slaves and subsequent death of 18,000 (ish) would balance that out then.

Really 18,000 peoples deaths is balanced out by the smashing of a statue, I think you've overdosed on self righteousness. The smashing of the statue doesn't some how wipe the slate clean or erase what happened, if you and the mob really want to start trying to make a dent in that balance sheet why not hold a whip round till you reach 30 million quid, the figure he roughly left to Bristol and use the money to fight modrrn day slavery.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Really 18,000 peoples deaths is balanced out by the smashing of a statue, I think you've overdosed on self righteousness. The smashing of the statue doesn't some how wipe the slate clean or erase what happened, if you and the mob really want to start trying to make a dent in that balance sheet why not hold a whip round till you reach 30 million quid, the figure he roughly left to Bristol and use the money to fight modrrn day slavery.

Show me where i said i want to smash the statue?

Accusing me of self righteousness when you're more concerned that a statue is damaged and that its grade 2 listing makes it more important than peoples suffering is just rank hypocrisy.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Again, no one says it will settle the issue, but it's a beginning. BTW this is not something we need to explain, this is something we need to educate ourselves on. (I mean this collectively, not as individuals in CF)

BLM perhaps contains a small quantity of racism against whites however demonstrations across the world have been inclusive and tolerant to the most degree.

Of course, there will be minority in any movement that try to twist the agenda by radicalisation or by militarisation. But that doesn't mean to say we should allow that to taint our view.

Use the house on fire analogy. Does the fire brigade go to the house thats burning first or three doors up to make sure they're OK?

Seems like an anarchistic majority to me. No self respecting person can righteously extend George FGloyd's murder into a movement in the UK that demand we eradicate parts of our history.


---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I'm not using race to bolster anything, merely, I've taken and expressed the view that's been expressed to me by my staff, because their words are more valid then mine at this time.

To you it may have no relevance but to others that are directly impacted by it, it does.


What exactly are you so fearful of?

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------




The transport of 84,000 slaves and subsequent death of 18,000 (ish) would balance that out then.

Er, remind me - when was this?