BNP loses seats

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by Defiant

I'm one for ID cards myself. I have nothing to hide after all

Is there a thread running on that?
It would be nice to debate with you on another topic entirely for a change

Originally Posted by aliferste

Is there a thread running on that?
It would be nice to debate with you on another topic entirely for a change

no, pleeeze don't, you'll get ramrod and graham started again

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Defiant

I'm one for ID cards myself. I have nothing to hide after all

I'm with you on that one, wheres Graham when you need him

edit - you two beat me to it

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Defiant

I'm one for ID cards myself. I have nothing to hide after all

Ditto. I would like to see ID cards introduced. I remember having a little arguement with Graham about it...

Originally Posted by scastle

Ditto. I would like to see ID cards introduced. I remember having a little arguement with Graham about it...

Graham and I don't agree on much but we do agree about ID cards ... I'm dead against them. For a start, illegal immigrants won't have them because they're illegal. But there are already illegal immiigrants in the UK without passports, driving licences, NI numbers, etc etc etc ... and that doesn't stop them working on fruit farms etc.

[Nor]

Surely it would be easier to spot the difference between illegals and legals if the illegals didn't have ID cards ? Also the assylum seekers who overstay will be spotted easier as their ID cards will either state when their leave date is or can be checked through their ID number.

I just can't see the harm in it. If it allows the police to check peoples real identity wheres the loss of civil liberties in that ?

Originally Posted by Nor

Surely it would be easier to spot the difference between illegals and legals if the illegals didn't have ID cards ? Also the assylum seekers who overstay will be spotted easier as their ID cards will either state when their leave date is or can be checked through their ID number.

I just can't see the harm in it. If it allows the police to check peoples real identity wheres the loss of civil liberties in that ?

I think we should have it for our civil liberties. We have people pretending to be us committing fraud (it’s happened to me) and like I say if you have nothing to hide then where’s the harm

[Nor]

Aye, its always the criminal who seems to complain that we are infringing their civil liberties. Never the poor granny whos scared to go outside after dark.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by towny

Graham and I don't agree on much but we do agree about ID cards ... I'm dead against them. For a start, illegal immigrants won't have them because they're illegal. But there are already illegal immiigrants in the UK without passports, driving licences, NI numbers, etc etc etc ... and that doesn't stop them working on fruit farms etc.

Agreed, I was always against ID cards but the current situation has changed my view entirely.

The food industry would collapse in the UK if they did not have the illegal immigrants working for them, these people often use false NI numbers and the government turn a blind eye because they dont give a toss as long as they are getting the NI and Tax from it.

If they clamped down the food industry would have a big problem and the government know it!

[Nor]

Sounds like tabloid nonsense that, that the whole UK food industry would collapse if those who employe fruit pickers had to pay them a decent wage.

You seem to be campaigning for the continuation of exploiting cheap labour in our country ? So let me get it right, no id cards for you because you want to keep people working for a couple of quid a day illegally, fair enough.

Originally Posted by Nor

Aye, its always the criminal who seems to complain that we are infringing their civil liberties. Never the poor granny whos scared to go outside after dark.

'Those who have done no wrong need have no fear' is not an argument in favour of anything; it's a poor excuse for a whinge put forward by those without the wit or intelligence to argue their point based on the issues. Such people prefer cheap innuendo and insults rather than well-reasoned debate.

It is extremely cynical of you to insuinuate that those that disagree with you on this issue must have something to hide, or be a criminal in some way. I might just as easily accuse you of being a deranged despot with unhealthy fantasies about imposing your ideas on other people. I don't do that, because I find it quite believable that you have arrived at your opinion by thinking about it and deciding you genuinely believe it to be for the best. I would be grateful if you would extend the same simple courtesy to those of us who disagree with you.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by towny

'Those who have done no wrong need have no fear' is not an argument in favour of anything; it's a poor excuse for a whinge put forward by those without the wit or intelligence to argue their point based on the issues. Such people prefer cheap innuendo and insults rather than well-reasoned debate.

It is extremely cynical of you to insuinuate that those that disagree with you on this issue must have something to hide, or be a criminal in some way. I might just as easily accuse you of being a deranged despot with unhealthy fantasies about imposing your ideas on other people. I don't do that, because I find it quite believable that you have arrived at your opinion by thinking about it and deciding you genuinely believe it to be for the best. I would be grateful if you would extend the same simple courtesy to those of us who disagree with you.

DId you click the wrong quote button cos I can't see how thats aimed at what I said.

Originally Posted by towny

'Those who have done no wrong need have no fear' is not an argument in favour of anything; it's a poor excuse for a whinge put forward by those without the wit or intelligence to argue their point based on the issues. Such people prefer cheap innuendo and insults rather than well-reasoned debate.

It is extremely cynical of you to insuinuate that those that disagree with you on this issue must have something to hide, or be a criminal in some way. I might just as easily accuse you of being a deranged despot with unhealthy fantasies about imposing your ideas on other people. I don't do that, because I find it quite believable that you have arrived at your opinion by thinking about it and deciding you genuinely believe it to be for the best. I would be grateful if you would extend the same simple courtesy to those of us who disagree with you.

Okay you have nothing to hide and your not a criminal then so what possible harm would it cause you!

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Nor

Sounds like tabloid nonsense that, that the whole UK food industry would collapse if those who employe fruit pickers had to pay them a decent wage.

You seem to be campaigning for the continuation of exploiting cheap labour in our country ? So let me get it right, no id cards for you because you want to keep people working for a couple of quid a day illegally, fair enough.

Please read my post again.

I said that I "was" against ID cards but my opinion has "now" changed, meaning that I agree that it would help the current situation.

ie: No card and out you go!

I have contact with someone dealing with asylum seekers and illegal immigrants in a London borough, and they are saying that these people working with false NI details are far more widespread than any of us imagine. On the other hand I know two people (one very well) that are making a mint from renting houses out to local authorities for asylum seekers where the local authority is paying twice the going rate for the rent.

I have not seen that claim in the news or the newspapers, but then again I may be wrong. I am not in favour of importing cheap labour into the country I am all for a fair wage for people who are allready resident here.

Originally Posted by Nor

DId you click the wrong quote button cos I can't see how thats aimed at what I said.

Defiant used the immortal phrase 'those who have done no wrong...' in the next post you agreed with him and observed that people who complain their civil liberties were being infringed seem to be criminals.

I was generally having a go at the notion that you can only object to ID cards if you are a criminal (which is what you said) or have done something wrong (which is what Defiant said, and how I began my post).

My apologies if I have entirely misunderstood you or appear to have victimised you ... praps you could clarify, do you think it is possible for a law-abiding citizen of the UK to have honest. well founded objections to having an ID card (whether you agree with their objections or not)?