A Duty To Die?

[TheDaddy]

The assisted dying bill is about to be debated for 5 hours before a vote today in Parliament. The big question for me is how they stop this falling foul of discrimination laws later down the line to enable anyone to take advantage of the law just like in Switzerland and Holland, who I'm sure never expected citizens who were tired or mentally ill to be included in its scope. Today won't be the end of the bill unless Mps vote against it.

The proposed safeguards are pathetic (the second medical opinion comes from a doctor nominated by the first? An overworked judge with no medical specialism is likely to make any serious effort to scrutinise the medical opinion of two doctors? Please.)

The woeful state of palliative care in this country creates pressure for this law to be passed and also ensures people will choose to die who, with proper end of life care, could have a dignified, natural death. It is no coincidence that those who do work in palliative care are against this in large numbers.

And nobody is addressing the elephant in the room, which is that in all other cases attempted suicide, or even contemplating it (‘suicidal ideation’) is itself treated as a mental health issue, which in the case of assisted dying legislation would disqualify someone from being granted it.

The whole idea of it devalues life and dignity.

[papa smurf]

I don't think this will pass,MP's talk a good talk but seldom have the courage to vote for anything difficult

[Pierre]

It's a difficult one. In the main I'm for it, but the safeguards need to be iron clad and I'm afraid this bill doesn't deliver that surety.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Chris

And nobody is addressing the elephant in the room, which is that in all other cases attempted suicide, or even contemplating it (‘suicidal ideation’) is itself treated as a mental health issue, which in the case of assisted dying legislation. would disqualify someone from being granted it.

Actually it's not always treated as a mental health issue. But I see the point you're making.

Originally Posted by peanut

Actually it's not always treated as a mental health issue. But I see the point you're making.

I guess I can only speak for the way it’s dealt with in young people in Scotland, where your first port of call in either case is always CAMHS (Child & Adolescent Mental Health Services) - I have first hand experience of this, and can attest that there is no care pathway available to any young person in Scotland who has attempted or contemplated taking their own life that does not involve a referral to a mental health practitioner (usually a suitably qualified nurse in the first instance, and a psychiatrist soon after if required).

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Chris

I guess I can only speak for the way it’s dealt with in young people in Scotland, where your first port of call in either case is always CAMHS (Child & Adolescent Mental Health Services) - I have first hand experience of this, and can attest that there is no care pathway available to any young person in Scotland who has attempted or contemplated taking their own life that does not involve a referral to a mental health practitioner (usually a suitably qualified nurse in the first instance, and a psychiatrist soon after if required).

From my own experience, when it comes to severe chronic pain with all the medical evidence and with that a limited quality of life, the mental health service takes it all the info into consideration. The result was due to the factors involved they didn't accept the way the/my mindset was/is as a mental health issue but acceptable in the circumstances. I would have a mental health issue if I didn't feel the way I do. Quite bizarre but there you go.

Well, they’ve gone for it. Not good.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Chris

Well, they’ve gone for it. Not good.

I find it really difficult to speak on someone else's behalf. Personally, I think we should have our own choice. As long as there are proper guide lines in place.

[Jaymoss]

Difficult on for the conscience I am sure. On one hand I do not want to suffer a horrid death and on the other I value life. I certainly think the law is wrong in some aspects ie if you help someone onto a plane or assist in any way in arranging a visit abroad for this then you can get charged with very serious offences. As I am sure most of us feel the same and hope that when our time comes its quick and painless but the sad fact is a lot of us will suffer. Horrid subject isn't it

[papa smurf]

i still don't think this will go thru the next reading

but i do believe it should be a personal choice

[peanut]

Just to muddy the waters a bit. Even with noted suicidal ideology (as stated). It took a long time to be actually diagnosed with F33.2 (Recurrent depressive disorder, current episode severe without psychotic symptoms). But the point is, they will not or has not considered it a mental health issue. It's all a very complicated system.

I do agree though this is still going to take years and years before anything is decided.

[1andrew1]

What's been refreshing here is that MPs have been able to vote per their conscience and not along any party lines.

I wonder how it will be received in the House of Lords.

[Mr K]

If we're talking about the last hours/ days of life and avoiding that being in agony, who can object? Dogs get better treatment.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mr K

If we're talking about the last hours/ days of life and avoiding that being in agony, who can object? Dogs get better treatment.

I don’t think anyone would think of hours, days and even weeks as an issue.

It’s the slippery slope.