NTL: email addresses obtained by spammers?

[Keytops]

So if somebody has got hold of NTL email address list - how come I, and no doubt many others aren't getting this (or much else) spam? [and I have the spam filters set to forward to my account, and I've been with NTL for 5 years or so).

[patrickp]

There's no way to ensure an email address won't be targeted by spammers, Brian - the best way would be to create a name with random characters and then never use it. As an example, I haven't used any of the ntl email addresses I've had since my cwcom one (and I don't use the cwcom at all for communicating with people - it simply serves as an address for various reasonably trustworthy subscriptions) and I don't think I've ever had any spam on any of them.

Firstly, as has been mentioned previously in this thread, spammers use name generators with the domain names for large ISPs, and it's pretty likely that they will check out how the ISP presents its email addresses when doing this. So it's fairly certain they will use aspects of an ISP's naming policies such as numbers after a name to distinguish between users with the same name. Try putting number characters into the middle of the name as a better way to combat this. And they're happy to use a 'scattergun' approach; they don't mind if most of the very large list of names they create miss, just so long as a few get a response.

When you use an email address, even if only with trusted friends, it's going to wind up in their address books. And then it only needs one machine to be compromised (and face it, a lot of people have infected machines now and never know it) for that address to be used, not only to send emails to you, but to send emails to others using your address as the return one. See how easy it is to get your address plastered all over the internet?

And that's why I get concerned over, for instance, your publishing someone's email address that you thought had sent you spam. As I demonstrated, it was extremely unlikely that the address you published was the originating address - i.e. it was spoofed - and, even if it wasn't a valid address (and it may well have been a valid one) the domain, which belongs to a telco providing 'phone services to disadvantaged people in California, will have to deal with any spam sent to that address.

Yes, it is possible that an employee of ntl has sold a list of email addresses, but I would consider it much less likely than that the people who've been getting spam are the victims of a spammer creating lists, or simply haven't been careful enough with their addresses - as I said before, just using an email address, even carefully, is probably enough to compromise it. The reason why none of my ntl emails have ever received spam is simply that I've never used any of them.

[nedsram]

Originally Posted by patrickp

Yes, it is possible that an employee of ntl has sold a list of email addresses, but I would consider it much less likely than that the people who've been getting spam are the victims of a spammer creating lists, or simply haven't been careful enough with their addresses - as I said before, just using an email address, even carefully, is probably enough to compromise it. The reason why none of my ntl emails have ever received spam is simply that I've never used any of them.

I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this one Patrick. Perhaps the spammers only got a partial list of email addresses, which didn't contain yours - who knows? I can only say that (a) I've seen it all before, (b) I am very careful not to divulge my email address on Usenet and the like. I think we should leave others to draw their own conclusions.

[patrickp]

Originally Posted by Keytops

So if somebody has got hold of NTL email address list - how come I, and no doubt many others aren't getting this (or much else) spam? [and I have the spam filters set to forward to my account, and I've been with NTL for 5 years or so).

I would doubt, Keytops, that if a disgruntled employee at ntl had sold email addresses on, that they would have had access to, and would have been able to obtain, anything like a complete list of all addresses. It would probably be only a small segment - which is not to say that I think it's likely that such a thing has happened at all. And I _seriously_ doubt that ntl as an organisation would sell their entire database on.

[Hom3r]

A few years ago my primary email address was getting about 250 emails a day mostly spam, and after a two week holiday over 3500 emails so I added another email address and used that for family & friends only.

I would advise that you set up several email addresses

1. family and friends
2. for play.com type website
3. for websites that require you to login to etc

[patrickp]

Originally Posted by nedsram

I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this one Patrick. Perhaps the spammers only got a partial list of email addresses, which didn't contain yours - who knows? I can only say that (a) I've seen it all before, (b) I am very careful not to divulge my email address on Usenet and the like. I think we should leave others to draw their own conclusions.

As I've said, Brian - use an email address, and you cannot discount the possibility of its having been compromised. Doesn't matter how careful you are - and I have to ask - if you're so careful with your own email addresses, why are you not more careful with others' addresses? If you're using an address, however carefully, just think - other people, even ones you would trust, are being a lot less careful with it than you might hope they'll be.

[nedsram]

Originally Posted by nedsram

o confirmation of my "registration";
o an email from the "FBI" that I have visited 30 illegal web sites, and must complete and return the attached form.

I have just received a security advisory from McAfee. The above are the W32/Sober virus. Have a look here:

http://uk.mcafee.com/virusInfo/defau...virus_k=137072

[hayesey]

Unfortunately Spam is part of life if you use Email. There is no avoiding it.

Just because you are getting spam it doesn't mean anyone has obtained a list of email addresses. It's free to send emails so spammers send out millions upon millions of emails to random addresses at known domains. ntlworld-dot-com is a known domain so millions of emails are sent to it from spammers all over the world (quite often from PCs infected with a virus that the owner doesn't even know about) to random words, numbers etc..etc...

It is not the same as postal junk mail where senders buy lists of addresses, they do that because it costs money to send out junk mail so they only want it to go to relevant addresses whereas spammers can send whatever they want for free.

If you want to blame anyone, blame virus writers, the people who decide to try to con people by sending out spam & the select few fools who reply to the emails and even sometimes pay them money.

[nedsram]

Originally Posted by hayesey

Unfortunately Spam is part of life if you use Email. There is no avoiding it.

Just because you are getting spam it doesn't mean anyone has obtained a list of email addresses.

First, it's a new virus. Second, I was on the bcc list for both, so it has gone to an unknown number of other people. Third, if NTL detected them as a virus/worm, why were they not deleted rather than forwarded to me?

I was merely warning people what was happening. Please don't shoot the messenger.

[hayesey]

But it seems like you are shooting the messenger! you can't blame NTL for getting an email virus.

Anti-virus software is always one step behind virus writers. Companies like norton, mcafee etc... can't pre-emt a new virus before it comes out. It's perfectly normal for a virus to do the rounds before AV software updates are available (& applied!).

I'm not trying to have a go, I'm just pointing out that it's not right to start blaming NTL for illegally selling email address lists. There is a direct relationship between spam/viruses & anti-spam/anti-virus software that has always existed & always will. Spammers/virus writers find a new way of tricking current anti-spam/virus software & as a result millions of new spam emails and/or viruses get through. It takes time (although usually only a day or so) for the new software updates to be written & usually a lot longer for people to get round to applying them. That then blocks most of the spam & viruses until the next "breakthrough" by the spam/virus writers.

Blaming NTL for spam & viruses getting through to you is incorrect & (no offense intended) shows a lack of understanding of how these systems work.

[simbr]

Originally Posted by nedsram

Today, as well as yet another offer of pirated software, I have received:
o an email from the "FBI" that I have visited 30 illegal web sites, and must complete and return the attached form.

Like this one? Guess what - ntl gets them too. It wasn't even sent to an email address that is published (first time I'd seen it in fact).

From: ****@cia.gov 11/22/05
To: ****@ntlfreedom.com
Subject: Your_IP_was_logged
Dear Sir/Madam,

we have logged your IP-address on more than 30 illegal Websites.

Important:
Please answer our questions!
The list of questions are attached.


Yours faithfully,
Steven Allison

I would also suggest that NTL might like to investigate how a list of primary email addresses got into spammers' hands in the first place.

Most likely one or a combination of these three methods:
Email harvesters
Spyware/viruses
A dictionary

[nileshgh]

For the last few days i am getting mails of this format with different subject and the end random numbers . again the address seems to be bcc. my email address is something which definitely cannot be arrived by random combination

we have both brands
men and women
highquality made rolx and bretlng
many models availablele
038.welcoometous.com
spvjkhw nbtej yymmcrjq
yjlr ff
xhq

Ok. I set up a new secondary acount on the 18th of this month. Spam so far ..

From - Wed Nov 23 15:00:50 2005
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To: Arie
Subject: Kristie Cool fashion item that is at reasonable price. Topmost
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From - Thu Nov 24 15:19:41 2005
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From - Mon Nov 28 23:23:44 2005
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From: "Shaningo" <bassty@elportil.com>
To: "Ceiseel" <****.*****@ntlworld.com>
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:29:44 -0400
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-------Original Message-------

From: Terrell [mailto:rnmbkx@vn.com]
Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:29:44 -0400
To: Veda
Subject: Melanie Cool fashion item that is at reasonable price. Topmost
fashion item.


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X-Account-Key: account2
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:58:27 -0400
Reply-To: "Danette" <fonaiwack@burek.co.yu>
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Now i've not edited any ip's 'cause it's spam! This is all on a virgin account i'm amazed that this kind of stuff gets through!

[grubbymitts]

There are many ways of spammers getting your email address through no fault of NTL, many of which have been touched upon here. The ways I know of include:

1) Posting your real email address anywhere (forums, newsgroups etc)
2) Signing up for email newsletters and not ticking boxes stopping them from selling your email to third parties who sell to third parties who sell to third parties etc
3) Friends, Romans, Countrymen who stupidly click on attachments in emails or actually buy the stuff from the spammers (which always comes with a nice spyware bonus)
4) Random email bombing (most likely culprit, whatever anyone says. A spammer has ten or twenty machines each running spamming email software linked to high upload connections that send out millions of emails a day. It only takes a few people to click on these emails to alert the spammer it is real. Lots of spam will also have a link to a picture hosted by the spam bots too. When the picture is requested then the spammer knows that that email address is valid and you will get more spam)

The best way to combat spam mail is to use web email servers like hotmail, yahoo or Gmail as they have very good spam filters. If you must use pop mail, then dump outlook express and download Thunderbird from Mozilla. By default it blocks javascript and pictures in emails so any spam coming through is less likely to be able to check if you have a valid email address.

Hope that helps.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by grubbymitts

There are many ways of spammers getting your email address through no fault of NTL, many of which have been touched upon here. The ways I know of include:

1) Posting your real email address anywhere (forums, newsgroups etc)
2) Signing up for email newsletters and not ticking boxes stopping them from selling your email to third parties who sell to third parties who sell to third parties etc
3) Friends, Romans, Countrymen who stupidly click on attachments in emails or actually buy the stuff from the spammers (which always comes with a nice spyware bonus)
4) Random email bombing (most likely culprit, whatever anyone says. A spammer has ten or twenty machines each running spamming email software linked to high upload connections that send out millions of emails a day. It only takes a few people to click on these emails to alert the spammer it is real. Lots of spam will also have a link to a picture hosted by the spam bots too. When the picture is requested then the spammer knows that that email address is valid and you will get more spam)

The best way to combat spam mail is to use web email servers like hotmail, yahoo or Gmail as they have very good spam filters. If you must use pop mail, then dump outlook express and download Thunderbird from Mozilla. By default it blocks javascript and pictures in emails so any spam coming through is less likely to be able to check if you have a valid email address.

Hope that helps.

This subject has been done to death, just to confirm though that ntl's email databse is not sold or obtained by spammers, all of the above reasons apply.