Plusnet Implemets 'Idle Timeouts' On Broadband ADSL Products

[Paul K]

Originally Posted by bpullen

Hi there,

We are not short of capacity across our network and that is not the primary reason for the proposal to introduce idle timeouts.

What is then? You seem intent on telling us just how wrong other people have been in their statements about a certain ISP so how about posting some facts to back up your statements?

[bpullen]

Originally Posted by Paul

What is then? You seem intent on telling us just how wrong other people have been in their statements about a certain ISP so how about posting some facts to back up your statements?

Hi there,

I did in my post?!? Id be interested to know if the utilisation graph was from before of after we recently lit another segment??

Regards,

[jtwn]

Interesting how the graphs on plus.net have changed to show different things since all the commotion was thrown up...

[bpullen]

Originally Posted by jtwn

Interesting how the graphs on plus.net have changed to show different things since all the commotion was thrown up...

Hi there,

That was suggested by our customers so we adopted the idea. We've been saying for some time that they were due an overhaul. It isn't a knee-jerk reaction although you're free to make your own conclusions of course.

Kind Regards,

[Chrysalis]

Plusnet I feel need to make a firm decision which way they are going to go. Either hard caps or no caps, not all this stuff in between. They also need to be honest with the public more, if they choose not to add upgrades and have an increased contention service then show that on your web page. The 30 min idle thing is a bit of a joke, that is something you would see in the dialup days to stop people hogging modem ports and is supposed to be a mute issue with broadband, is this caused by having fewer ip addresses then customers?

[batuted]

Hi bpullen,
I am a new Plusnet customer, and joined on the recommendation of a friend.

I too have been dismayed by the e-mail I recieved at the weekend.

I am however rather confused by the statement you raised in an earlier post:
"Quote:
Plusnet have now implemented 30 minute idle timeout on two of their broadband ADSL products. If your connection is idle for 30 minutes you'll be disconnected.

We have not implemented this. Just added a clause to the T's & C's that says we may."

In the e-mail I received it states:
"- Introduction of 'idle time-outs' for Broadband Plus and ADSL Home Surf
customers only. This means that we will disconnect any sessions that are
inactive for a period of thirty minutes. As long as your connection is in active
use, you will not be disconnected. If you are disconnected you will be able to
reconnect straight away. Please note that idle-timeouts will not be implemented
on Premier, Pay As You go or Business accounts."

So which is the correct answer?

I purchased a wireless router, and my biggest headache, if I cannot automatically get it to re-connect, is that I will not have the 'always on/anywhere in the house' functionality I joined you guys for, and bought the hardware for.

The thing is, if I can get it to automatically re-connect, it doesn't actually achieve anything on your end from what i can see, or am I missing something?

Dan

[bpullen]

Originally Posted by batuted

So which is the correct answer?

The idle timeouts are not enforced at the moment. If I am completely honest I suspect they will be introduced at some point on the BB+ and HomeSurf accounts. Remember idle timeouts would be introduced explore whether network capacity could be better managed. Now if the positive effect on the network is minimal then there would be little need for us to continue utilising timeouts and they would subsequently be withdrawn.

I purchased a wireless router, and my biggest headache, if I cannot automatically get it to re-connect, is that I will not have the 'always on/anywhere in the house' functionality I joined you guys for, and bought the hardware for.

I would suggest speaking to the manufacturer to ascertain what will happen. Your router will either reconnect automatically, on demand (ie next time an Internet application is opened) or in the worse case scenario require a reboot. Certain configuration options will influence which of these will occur.

The thing is, if I can get it to automatically re-connect, it doesn't actually achieve anything on your end from what i can see, or am I missing something?

Dan, as I mentioned before, if it doesn't achieve anything then it will be withdrawn.

Kind Regards,

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Plusnet I feel need to make a firm decision which way they are going to go. Either hard caps or no caps, not all this stuff in between. They also need to be honest with the public more, if they choose not to add upgrades and have an increased contention service then show that on your web page. The 30 min idle thing is a bit of a joke, that is something you would see in the dialup days to stop people hogging modem ports and is supposed to be a mute issue with broadband, is this caused by having fewer ip addresses then customers?

Nah not fewer IP addresses, they were gambling on BT increasing the number of concurrent sessions per 622Mbit STM-4. BT have not done this and PN do not have enough sessions to have their entire customer base online (this from an official statement from PN informing that there were enough sessions as all userbase isn't online at the same time, implication if all userbase were online not enough sessions available).

That is bad considering that PN have 155Mbit of an STM-4 still not utilised, however when they light up that extra bandwidth it won't come with any extra sessions.

As far as the increased contention service PN are far happier spinning that their 30:1 is better than the norm, despite the fact that BT Wholesale guideline contention on the 50:1 service as calculated by Ofcom for the Margin Squeeze Tests is 25:1.

Graphs look much better now though, the new graph layout manages to nicely avoid the big flat sections that were there previously where capacity available maxed out and traffic shaping was required.

Personally I don't see the problem in just saying that the service is a bargain basement service and is subject to both traffic shaping and to user management if overused. However PN appear to have employed the Iraqi Information Minister, and he has various 'customer support' people spreading his word across ADSLGuide, ISPReview and now here.

Whatever you say Mr Pullen idle timeouts are both to manage your lack of sessions and free up capacity on your traffic shaping kit. Can't be that painful just admitting to it, can it?

Feel free to talk to me in confidence to soothe your soul from having to constantly toe the company line, I know it would really get on my nerves being customer support and unpaid PR in one go.

[Chrysalis]

hmm the fact the sessions are used up but other isp's arent hitting this problem would this indicate they are cramming more users then what is considered normal on a STM-4?

[batuted]

Thanks for your reply and clarification Bob,

Much appreciated.

Dan

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

hmm the fact the sessions are used up but other isp's arent hitting this problem would this indicate they are cramming more users then what is considered normal on a STM-4?

*nods

Why do you think they're traffic shaping, etc

Pay peanuts...

[Chrysalis]

looking at new plusnet graphs, the seperated ones I can see no flatlines on the cheaper products which makes me think they are traffic shaped so heavily they cant hit the ceiling and I see a flatline on plusnet premier which shows its still hitting a limit.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

looking at new plusnet graphs, the seperated ones I can see no flatlines on the cheaper products which makes me think they are traffic shaped so heavily they cant hit the ceiling and I see a flatline on plusnet premier which shows its still hitting a limit.

Ooops!

Traffic shaping will only show when hitting a 'ceiling' of some sort, flat horizontal lines, like the ones seen on the combined graph before they replaced it with the new ones.

*Passes Chrysalis a Plusnet Sandvine / Ellacoya + a manual.
__________________

Originally Posted by bpullen

Hi there,

I did in my post?!? Id be interested to know if the utilisation graph was from before of after we recently lit another segment??

Regards,

Util graph from before you lit another segment, didn't max as your traffic shaping kit prevents each STM-1 from maxing.

Fact that as soon as that extra segment was lit the graph before being changed went well over your previous capacity says how much was being throttled. Although that isn't an issue.

If you were to just say 'yep we're traffic shaping, etc, etc, what do you expect for the price' that'd be cool rather than the constant disinformation and spin mission, which sucks.

ISP = Internet Service Provider, not Increased Spin Please

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Ignition

Ooops!

Traffic shaping will only show when hitting a 'ceiling' of some sort, flat horizontal lines, like the ones seen on the combined graph before they replaced it with the new ones.

*Passes Chrysalis a Plusnet Sandvine / Ellacoya + a manual.

Ok hold on, lets say you have a traffic shaping policy in place, it kicks in no matter whats going on. So 1000 users are downloading something of microsoft.com at 120kB on their 2mbit connections and without the shaping it would normally be 1000x240kB, it wont flat line it will just be lower peak, as a reult of traffic shaping. So isp's traffic shaping can give the impression they not hitting capacity because the shaping is what is saving them hit capacity.

Flat horizontal lines are normally an indication of total capacity been reached. But can also be a result of a shaping policy that limits total traffic.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by bpullen

Hi there,

We are not short of capacity across our network and that is not the primary reason for the proposal to introduce idle timeouts.

Originally Posted by bpullen

Hi there,

I did in my post?!? Id be interested to know if the utilisation graph was from before of after we recently lit another segment??

Not short of capacity?

http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthre...b=5&o=0&fpart=

Subject Sustainable Usage Policy [link to this post]
Reply to this post
Posted by Standard User stewartnorriss (isp)
Posted on Thu 15-Sep-05 16:28:09


We have just published a calrification and outline of our sustainable usage policy found here : http://www.plus.net/support/features...ge_guide.shtml

We've taken on board customer comments from August's exercise and have included more detail on the policy and have added more phases. We've changed measurement from calendar month to billing month based on customer feedback.

The reason for taking action is that in the last 3 months Premier customer numbers have increased by just 4% but in the same period their P2P usage has increased 100%. This is now causing us real problems at peak times and is impacting the experience of all our other customers so we're taking action for the benefit of all our broadband customers.

The policy affects less than 0.5% of our customers and as more than 90% of customers use less than 10GB per month they will not be affected by this.

All the details are on the page linked above.

Stewart Norriss
PlusNet Plusnet Comms Team Leader

Oops. Go spread the good word somewhere else maybe Mr Pullen, or at least keep your message consistent. Your network is bursting at the seams as admitted above, hence the continuing policies of idle timeouts and 'fair use'.

No other DSL ISP has found it necessary to disconnect idle users, your network is crammed both in terms of bandwidth and session utilisation. I suspect that your Ellacoyas are part of the cause, reserving 67kbps per user probably requires some work to avoid reserving yourselves out of bandwidth too, especially with the over population of pipes that you have necessarily self-induced through your aggressive price cuts.